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Thread: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I simply have no faith that left in the fed hands this problem will ever do anything but get worse. I believe in citizens being responsible. Local and state elections are far more easy to get involved and stay involved in. Left to the fed, our great grandkids are going to be handed a 50 trillion dollar debt before they earn their first dime. Left to the fed, citizens of the state dont see those services as 'real' or costing anyone anything. And why should they? rather than pay for those abuses, we let future citizens do it.
    Depends on what you're talking about. In much of the state level, I would say the opposite.

    Second of all, I noticed that those who need the services seem to be a passing thought, and your macro view about the debt predominates every facet of the conversation.
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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Depends on what you're talking about. In much of the state level, I would say the opposite.

    Second of all, I noticed that those who need the services seem to be a passing thought, and your macro view about the debt predominates every facet of the conversation.
    If thats how you choose to view my position, I suppose I couldnt convince you otherwise. Ive worked with these populations for about 7 years in both a government, contract, and private capacity. I obligate personal time and resources as well as business resources. I HAVE to view the 'macro' picture because I understand how the services are run. For example, I understand the services for many states are contracted to private 'non profit' agencies...agencies which consume about half of the resources in administrative fees and salaries for execs, leaving about half of a steadily dwindling pot for social work services, case workers, and clients. Ive seen case management workloads go from an industry recommended 25-30 maximum up to as high as 120 per provider, per week. You can imagine the toll that has not only on case workers but also recipients.
    My agency last year provided holiday assistance meals to 55 families and complete Christmas' for 110 kids. I work regularly to get mentally handicapped adults into care facilities when their families can no longer provide for them. I dont talk about the populations...I work with the populations 7 days a week. You can think that means I make the services a passing thought. The reality is....without the fiscal resources NONE of those services are rendered. That doesnt at all change the human side of the problem and I'm sorry (not really...but its what we say) but I will ALWAYS see a system that promotes and enables dependency as the exact opposite of 'compassionate'.

    And yes...I DO tend to focus on the debt aspect of this when the discussion is where the services should reside. Its critical. Social spending continues to climb in every state and in the fed. If people dont start addressing it as a real and legitimate concern, it will all become irrelevant. But can you show me where I have suggested needed services should be cut? All I have stated is that under the current system the debt will threaten ALL services and the instances of fraud keep services from getting to those who truly need the services. Make that mean what you want. I get that I can be kinda crass and direct. Im a realist. If that translates to "I dont care"...well...you couldnt possibly guess how much.

    I dont know about your state...but in most states election involvement is dramatically lower than during the federal elections. It is far easier to get involved with party caucuses at the state level. It is not at all difficult to get on your state representatives calendar. Its very easy to get involved in community. I am the past chair of the county DV coalition and am a current voting member of the state DV Counsel. We meet with the governor or Lt Governor once a month and once a year hold the meetings at the state capital specifically to discuss state legislation. Its just not that hard to have a voice at the local and state level...especially when your organization includes newsletters, cameras, and recordings of meetings.

    THAT we have spent several generations turning over responsibility to the Fed is undeniable. Its all we know. But what we know...is it is not working.

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    McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Council, dammit...Council. I hate when I do that. And married to an English professor...

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I simply have no faith that left in the fed hands this problem will ever do anything but get worse. I believe in citizens being responsible. Local and state elections are far more easy to get involved and stay involved in. Left to the fed, our great grandkids are going to be handed a 50 trillion dollar debt before they earn their first dime. Left to the fed, citizens of the state dont see those services as 'real' or costing anyone anything. And why should they? rather than pay for those abuses, we let future citizens do it.
    I heard about this podcast: Trends With Benefits | This American Life

    Very interesting. The number of people on disability has skyrocketed due to a loophole states have found in the welfare reform act in the '90's. I haven't had a chance to listen to it all. The state pays companies to get people off welfare, which the state pays for, and onto federal disability. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of this information. Maybe you know something more about it or another poster knows. It's an unintended consequence of putting welfare on the states.

    If this is true, I feel more strongly about this post you responded to. States will find a way to get out of paying what they can and without strong support for people who need assistance due to no fault of their own.

    Also, I think it's clear the fed needs to crack down on this practice. That would be a start.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I heard about this podcast: Trends With Benefits | This American Life

    Very interesting. The number of people on disability has skyrocketed due to a loophole states have found in the welfare reform act in the '90's. I haven't had a chance to listen to it all. The state pays companies to get people off welfare, which the state pays for, and onto federal disability. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of this information. Maybe you know something more about it or another poster knows. It's an unintended consequence of putting welfare on the states.

    If this is true, I feel more strongly about this post you responded to. States will find a way to get out of paying what they can and without strong support for people who need assistance due to no fault of their own.

    Also, I think it's clear the fed needs to crack down on this practice. That would be a start.
    That would ABSOLUTELY be a problem...if the entire system is not reformed. The lions share of tax money taken today is FEDERAL. That needs to change in order for this to work. The fed cant expect to tax at the same rate and then dump responsibility of on states. Right now a lot of state agencies, Shelter and DV Coalitions are dependent on grant money received from the Fed. Thats where the tax money is going...thats why the system is so badly broken. If the states were able to tax appropriately they could fund those programs appropriately without having to beg the fed for money their own citizens have already paid.

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    That would ABSOLUTELY be a problem...if the entire system is not reformed. The lions share of tax money taken today is FEDERAL. That needs to change in order for this to work. The fed cant expect to tax at the same rate and then dump responsibility of on states. Right now a lot of state agencies, Shelter and DV Coalitions are dependent on grant money received from the Fed. Thats where the tax money is going...thats why the system is so badly broken. If the states were able to tax appropriately they could fund those programs appropriately without having to beg the fed for money their own citizens have already paid.
    Wait, the states were given block grants from the Fed to administrate welfare, giving states the power to administrate the program. Block grants are the same idea Ryan has put forth for Social Security. So then it's the Fed's fault that the states are exploiting a loophole, thus requiring vast and increasing funds from the Fed to sustain those people dumped on the Fed, thus impairing their ability to tax appropriately?

    I'm just trying to understand your argument. I see that there is a demand to give states these programs, but then it's the fault of the Fed when states weasel out. Putting more people onto the Federal disability rolls is self-defeating to your last sentence.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Wait, the states were given block grants from the Fed to administrate welfare, giving states the power to administrate the program. Block grants are the same idea Ryan has put forth for Social Security. So then it's the Fed's fault that the states are exploiting a loophole, thus requiring vast and increasing funds from the Fed to sustain those people dumped on the Fed, thus impairing their ability to tax appropriately?

    I'm just trying to understand your argument. I see that there is a demand to give states these programs, but then it's the fault of the Fed when states weasel out. Putting more people onto the Federal disability rolls is self-defeating to your last sentence.
    The argument is very direct. Current system has the fed seizing money from taxpayers, passing it around to whichever bureaucracy they want to and need to, and then...provided that the states play nice and follow their rules, GRACIOUSLY send block grants back to the states. As a system...thats just plain goofy. Would you run a business that way? Of COURSE not...you would ask the obvious and honest question...why am I sending money to the fed in the first place?

    Now...the answer. Because the fed CREATED that system and we LET them. The problem with that system is obvious...no direct responsibility, no responsible oversight, no constrictions on spending, and an infinite money pool by tossing any excesses or overages onto future generations in the name of deficits and debts. The ONLY reason for people to reject state responsibility for their own social programs is a desire to remain fiscally irresponsible. Large problems in our state? No problem...let the fed handle it. Fed cant handle it? No problem, let them run a deficit, borrow against our grandkids future...out of sight, out of mind. Its just wrong on every level.

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I suppose it all depends on ones definition of compassion. All my life i always believed in giving a hand up, not a hand out. It was just the way I was brought up. I am not sure either party is a party of compassion.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The argument is very direct. Current system has the fed seizing money from taxpayers, passing it around to whichever bureaucracy they want to and need to, and then...provided that the states play nice and follow their rules, GRACIOUSLY send block grants back to the states. As a system...thats just plain goofy. Would you run a business that way? Of COURSE not...you would ask the obvious and honest question...why am I sending money to the fed in the first place?

    Now...the answer. Because the fed CREATED that system and we LET them. The problem with that system is obvious...no direct responsibility, no responsible oversight, no constrictions on spending, and an infinite money pool by tossing any excesses or overages onto future generations in the name of deficits and debts. The ONLY reason for people to reject state responsibility for their own social programs is a desire to remain fiscally irresponsible. Large problems in our state? No problem...let the fed handle it. Fed cant handle it? No problem, let them run a deficit, borrow against our grandkids future...out of sight, out of mind. Its just wrong on every level.
    The system was created to ensure those needing assistance got help, because they were not already. When it got out of hand, the money was given to states, as per the request of political parties and states. The state has the responsibility for oversight and to reduce the number of people on welfare. It's in the law. Only they didn't do that. It's for another thread, but I'll say it again. This is the Ryan plan for Medicare (I erroneously wrote Social Security earlier). I see that as a problem.

    That is not the only and most serious reason to reject states responsibility for social programs. The first is the ability of states to just ignore people who are not a priority to the state. They include the most vulnerable amongst us. The physically and learning disabled and the poor who have mental health problems. Getting help for either, even if the funds already guaranteed, is nearly impossible. Giving the state sole responsibility would be a travesty.

    I don't see how it's the Fed's fault for the states doing what they are doing.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  10. #50
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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    The system was created to ensure those needing assistance got help, because they were not already. When it got out of hand, the money was given to states, as per the request of political parties and states. The state has the responsibility for oversight and to reduce the number of people on welfare. It's in the law. Only they didn't do that. It's for another thread, but I'll say it again. This is the Ryan plan for Medicare (I erroneously wrote Social Security earlier). I see that as a problem.

    That is not the only and most serious reason to reject states responsibility for social programs. The first is the ability of states to just ignore people who are not a priority to the state. They include the most vulnerable amongst us. The physically and learning disabled and the poor who have mental health problems. Getting help for either, even if the funds already guaranteed, is nearly impossible. Giving the state sole responsibility would be a travesty.

    I don't see how it's the Fed's fault for the states doing what they are doing.
    The creation and swelling of social programs at the fed level has been going on for a loooooong long time. What is changing is that the bloat has finally caught up to the fed and now, after creating this system they are 'dumping' responsibility on the states. Which is the RIGHT thing to do...provided that you end the fed tax bloat. You cant maintain the fed tax bloat which the fed created AND tell the states, oh by the way...pick up the slack. The entire system has to be redefined. My personal belief is that it should be redefined with the fed tax burden radically reduced and the states given the responsibility to spend and tax accordingly.

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