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Thread: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

  1. #21
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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Hamfisted response perhaps. Point being...there ARE those that simply cannot provide for themselves or their families through no fault of their own. There are people we should ALWAYS take care of. That support should NOT come from the federal government...rather from private, local, and state.
    There's plenty of services that are mix funded through federal and state funds, but the latter cannot take the whole thing, and couldn't be trusted to do that either. Private is a mixed bag in comparison with those two, where frequently, there is hardly any private groups that care enough or believe they have enough incentive to push funds through to do such matters.

    Perhaps my awareness of this is completely different, but at the state level you just end up with the same argument you're making, minus the parts about the federal government. It always comes down to "other people's money," especially for those populations that fall under that category of "through no fault of their own." Then under such an argument, once that realization comes through to them that it won't work well, a good chunk of the time I get the response "tough ****."
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-29-13 at 02:13 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #22
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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    There's plenty of services that are mix funded through federal and state funds, but the latter cannot take the whole thing, and couldn't be trusted to do that either. Private is a mixed bag in comparison with those two, where frequently, there is hardly any private groups that care enough or believe they have enough incentive to push funds through to do such matters.

    Perhaps my awareness of this is completely different, but at the state level you just end up with the same argument you're making, minus the parts about the federal government. It always comes down to "other people's money," especially for those populations that fall under that category of "through no fault of their own." Then under such an argument, once that realization comes through to them that it won't work well, a good chunk of the time I get the response "tough ****."
    Nah. Eliminate the federal involvement and gut layers of bureaucracy. Allow the states to address their own needs and tax their citizens accordingly. Much more likely to actually be responsible for the product (and maybe just maybe have people actually engaged to help) and not just bury the cost of social programs in the trillions of dollars of annual debt so that it becomes some other generations problem.

  3. #23
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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Nah. Eliminate the federal involvement and gut layers of bureaucracy. Allow the states to address their own needs and tax their citizens accordingly. Much more likely to actually be responsible for the product (and maybe just maybe have people actually engaged to help) and not just bury the cost of social programs in the trillions of dollars of annual debt so that it becomes some other generations problem.
    I couldn't imagine North Dakota providing adequate SSI, could you? Vocational Rehabilitation?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I couldn't imagine North Dakota providing adequate SSI, could you? Vocational Rehabilitation?
    Social Security is an enmeshed federal program. Theoretically it is a pay as you go system and since people are prone to move to many different states over the course of their lifetimes it is the one and only social program that should stay at the fed. It should have some serious revisions in my opinion, but still.

    As for the rest of their social programs...yes...North Dakota should be every bit as much on the hook for its own citizens as should California.

  5. #25
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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Social Security is an enmeshed federal program. Theoretically it is a pay as you go system and since people are prone to move to many different states over the course of their lifetimes it is the one and only social program that should stay at the fed. It should have some serious revisions in my opinion, but still.

    As for the rest of their social programs...yes...North Dakota should be every bit as much on the hook for its own citizens as should California.
    But what I am trying to tell you is that we have to fight like crazy to just get federal law enforced, getting state services funded or created. I wouldn't in my wildest dreams trust the states.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Also SSI is only administered through Social Security, but its source of funds comes from the Treasury.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    But what I am trying to tell you is that we have to fight like crazy to just get federal law enforced, getting state services funded or created. I wouldn't in my wildest dreams trust the states.
    And because people have not trusted the state we have a fast approaching 17 trillion dollar debt sinkhole and a federal government that thinks nothing of heaping future debt on current problems. That old saying "if it aint broke dont fix it" certainly does NOT apply...its hard broke and isnt getting any better. The current system is corrupt, it encourages corruption and there are far too many people that have found government assistance to be an appropriate way of life.

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    And because people have not trusted the state we have a fast approaching 17 trillion dollar debt sinkhole and a federal government that thinks nothing of heaping future debt on current problems. That old saying "if it aint broke dont fix it" certainly does NOT apply...its hard broke and isnt getting any better. The current system is corrupt, it encourages corruption and there are far too many people that have found government assistance to be an appropriate way of life.
    But this idea doesn't actually help the people who fall under the category "through no fault of their own."
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    But this idea doesn't actually help the people who fall under the category "through no fault of their own."
    Where appropriately applied, social services should not go away. I stress where appropriately applied. Its anecdotal so take it for what it is worth, but I will give just one of thousands of examples where it is NOT appropriately applied (anecdotal, but happens several times a day in the hospital. This was yesterday). 21 year old young woman presents in the ER claiming extreme pain and anxiety. 'NEEDS' meds...'must' have them. Quick background and assessment and low and behold, she is on her 4th hospital of the day, and her and her boyfriend are hitting every ER they can to get pain meds. When called on the knowledge, she claims suicidal ideation and threatens to cut herself in the parking lot. Hospital bills Medicare and SS for ER visit, complete labs, psych assessment...in total...about 3.5k per visit per day. Her 'disability'? Hell if I know. She is insulin dependent diabetic but other than that absolutely healthy and capable. She is 'in the system' and will be for the rest of her life. Too easy to get on, too easy to stay on, and too many opportunities for abuse. The fed system is a cancer. The numbers of young physically healthy able bodied individuals on disability is climbing. It wont get better. It is a self perpetuating system. State and local services would offer better oversight and might make people aware of just how much money is being shoveled into that debt hole.

    There is a difference between "no fault of their own" and classic, chronic malingerers. Because the fed pot is so immense, care providers profit from these types of people. And going back to the 'compassion' part...I personally think the WORST THING we can do to people like that is to continue to facilitate them to live that existence for the next 50+ years.

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    Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    You mean because they did not yield to liberal extortion they are are evil people, dontcha? Obama is the one who said he would not accept any legislation to avoid sequester that did not involve raising taxes so the GOP did not let themselves be blackmailed. No more; no less.
    No, thats what you mean. Imo, both sides are running neck to neck when it comes to misleading and extortion. Although, the Republicans did get one "pants on fire" and the Democrats didn't get any. And while the Democrats got one almost true and a couple half truths, the Republicans didn't get any truths at all....

    Fact checking the sequester: a round-up - The Washington Post

    Apparently, the GOP congressmen didn't like the sequester screwing up their flight plans otherwise they would have just let the FAA dangle and the public be damned. So it's obvious that unless an issue effects them personally, they could care less.

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