View Poll Results: Would you be okay with the two proposals?

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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1
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    Gun Control

    Would you be okay with a gun control proposal that had the following:

    1) Straw Buyers suffer the same punishment as the person they bought the firearm for
    2) Current Background checks updated to include psych and medical histories to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally unstable.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #2
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    Re: Gun Control

    I'm not OK with any gun control laws.

    What part of “…shall not be infringed” do you not understand?
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  3. #3
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    Re: Gun Control

    Prosecute those who violate the liberties of others. Criminals will get guns if they want, regardless of the law. Make a law, they will just find another way.

    Gun control is hitting your target.

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Prosecute those who violate the liberties of others.
    Agreed. Including public servants who willfully participate in the enacting and enforcement of laws which violate the Constitutional liberties of others, such as all gun control laws.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
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  5. #5
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    1) Straw Buyers suffer the same punishment as the person they bought the firearm for
    This part I'm fine with, as long as it can be proven that they bought it knowing the person wasn't allowed to own a gun. Although I wonder if that's already illegal. Owning a gun when you aren't allowed to is a crime, buying one for someone should be conspiracy shouldn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    2) Current Background checks updated to include psych and medical histories to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally unstable.
    Probably not this part. There are a lot of problems with it. It's hard to predict whether someone, even a person with severe psychological issues, is dangerous. And just because someone was deemed dangerous in the past, doesn't mean they still are. I think in a lot of cases this could actually make people less likely to seek psychological treatment because of fear they would lose their guns. My wife is a good example. She suffers from clinical depression and owns (and enjoys shooting) a couple of guns. She isn't suicidal, though she was years ago, and she sees a psychiatrist to help her cope with her depression. The counseling has helped a lot over the last couple years. She would have been a lot less likely to seek that help (and I would have been less likely to encourage her to do so) if we thought it might mean we couldn't own guns anymore, because it wasn't severely impacting her daily life. She had a few rough days here and there, and in general she was mildly unhappy, but for the most part it wasn't debilitating.

    Personally, I think if someone is considered dangerous enough they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, they probably shouldn't be allowed out in society unsupervised either. One doesn't need a gun to cause harm after all.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I'm not OK with any gun control laws.

    What part of “…shall not be infringed” do you not understand?
    Generally the debate comes over what exactly constitutes infringement. Particularly since nearly everyone, barring a few on the lunatic fringe, are okay with some sort of restriction on gun ownership, even if it's just age-based.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    This part I'm fine with, as long as it can be proven that they bought it knowing the person wasn't allowed to own a gun. Although I wonder if that's already illegal. Owning a gun when you aren't allowed to is a crime, buying one for someone should be conspiracy shouldn't it?
    Straw buys are already illegal, but sharing the same punishment is not. This I think would cut down on lots of straw buys if you knew that your friend was shady. If you could end up getting the death penalty for their crimes, that's pretty heavy. Straw buys are some of the biggest ways people who cannot legally own firearms get firearms.

    Probably not this part. There are a lot of problems with it. It's hard to predict whether someone, even a person with severe psychological issues, is dangerous. And just because someone was deemed dangerous in the past, doesn't mean they still are. I think in a lot of cases this could actually make people less likely to seek psychological treatment because of fear they would lose their guns. My wife is a good example. She suffers from clinical depression and owns (and enjoys shooting) a couple of guns. She isn't suicidal, though she was years ago, and she sees a psychiatrist to help her cope with her depression. The counseling has helped a lot over the last couple years. She would have been a lot less likely to seek that help (and I would have been less likely to encourage her to do so) if we thought it might mean we couldn't own guns anymore, because it wasn't severely impacting her daily life. She had a few rough days here and there, and in general she was mildly unhappy, but for the most part it wasn't debilitating.
    I was thinking more like homicidal and violent pysch issues. Depression at its worse means you might off yourself. I've said it before that America really doesn't have a gun problem. It i has a mental health problem. The recent gun massacres were done by people who had serious mental health issues.

    Personally, I think if someone is considered dangerous enough they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, they probably shouldn't be allowed out in society unsupervised either. One doesn't need a gun to cause harm after all.
    That is true, but a gun makes it easier. Kind of hard to kill 30 people with a knife. Possible, but hard.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #8
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Generally the debate comes over what exactly constitutes infringement. Particularly since nearly everyone, barring a few on the lunatic fringe, are okay with some sort of restriction on gun ownership, even if it's just age-based.
    I'm pretty sure most people would agree that people shouldn't be allowed to own tanks and automatic shotguns. You can literally clear a street of people with some automatic shotguns in seconds. They don't call them street sweepers for nothing.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #9
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    Re: Gun Control

    Too many variables with both.

    1. Person purchasing might not know the other is not allowed to have a gun.

    2. Too many things could be determined as mental health problems.

  10. #10
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Straw buys are already illegal, but sharing the same punishment is not. This I think would cut down on lots of straw buys if you knew that your friend was shady. If you could end up getting the death penalty for their crimes, that's pretty heavy. Straw buys are some of the biggest ways people who cannot legally own firearms get firearms.
    Oh, I thought you just meant they'd get the same penalty as the person they bought for would get for possessing the gun illegally. If you're talking about giving them the same punishment the other person got for a crime they committed with the gun, I'm vehemently against that, unless it can be proven that the person who bought them the gun knew they were going to commit the crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I was thinking more like homicidal and violent pysch issues. Depression at its worse means you might off yourself.
    The problem is that it's still quite difficult to determine whether someone might become homicidal or violent when they have mental health issues. And it's pretty callous to brush off the people who commit suicide. Far more people are killed by guns each year via suicide than by homicide or any other reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I've said it before that America really doesn't have a gun problem. It i has a mental health problem. The recent gun massacres were done by people who had serious mental health issues.
    This I very much agree with, which is why I think it's stupid to try to solve the problem with gun control, when we should be looking at solving the underlying mental health issues. Gun control is just curing the symptoms.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That is true, but a gun makes it easier. Kind of hard to kill 30 people with a knife. Possible, but hard.
    Not really. There are a lot of serial killers who have killed a lot more people than any of these mass shootings. It still doesn't address the point that someone who is considered too dangerous to own a gun for fear of what they might do with it should probably be in some sort of treatment facility somewhere and not allowed to roam loose.
    Last edited by molten_dragon; 04-23-13 at 06:49 PM.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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