View Poll Results: Would you be okay with the two proposals?

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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #11
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I'm pretty sure most people would agree that people shouldn't be allowed to own tanks and automatic shotguns. You can literally clear a street of people with some automatic shotguns in seconds. They don't call them street sweepers for nothing.
    That's a myth. At most ranges that a shooting would occur at, buckshot only spreads a few inches. It's hardly enough to 'clear a street of people'. At least no more effective at it than any other fully automatic firearm would be.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Oh, I thought you just meant they'd get the same penalty as the person they bought for would get for possessing the gun illegally. If you're talking about giving them the same punishment the other person got for a crime they committed with the gun, I'm vehemently against that, unless it can be proven that the person who bought them the gun knew they were going to commit the crime.
    How about if they knew their friend was likely to commit some crime, but not necessarily the specific one they did? Honestly, I see straw buyers as accomplices. You buy a fire arm for a friend you know is shady and then they go and do something shady? I see no reason not to hold you accountable. We charge get away drivers with often the same punishment.

    The problem is that it's still quite difficult to determine whether someone might become homicidal or violent when they have mental health issues. And it's pretty callous to brush off the people who commit suicide. Far more people are killed by guns each year via suicide than by homicide or any other reason.
    You can find a way to kill yourself without a gun. Killing 30 people in a school is much harder without a firearm.

    Not really. There are a lot of serial killers who have killed a lot more people than any of these mass shootings. It still doesn't address the point that someone who is considered too dangerous to own a gun for fear of what they might do with it should probably be in some sort of treatment facility somewhere and not allowed to roam loose.
    But these people don't do it all at once.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How about if they knew their friend was likely to commit some crime, but not necessarily the specific one they did? Honestly, I see straw buyers as accomplices. You buy a fire arm for a friend you know is shady and then they go and do something shady? I see no reason not to hold you accountable. We charge get away drivers with often the same punishment.
    I'm fine punishing someone if it can be proven that they had foreknowledge of the crime and assisted with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You can find a way to kill yourself without a gun. Killing 30 people in a school is much harder without a firearm.
    Unlikely, since the worst school killing in American history was done with a bomb. And it's pretty well proven that people who have easy access to a gun are much more likely to successfully commit suicide than people who don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    But these people don't do it all at once.
    So it's somehow better for 50 people to get killed one at a time than 30 all at once?
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  4. #14
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Would you be okay with a gun control proposal that had the following:

    1) Straw Buyers suffer the same punishment as the person they bought the firearm for
    2) Current Background checks updated to include psych and medical histories to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally unstable.
    1. If they knew the person was not eligible to have the gun and intended to use it in a crime. They would already be an accomplice under current law in my state and subject to the same punishment so it would be redundant.

    2. No.

  5. #15
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm fine punishing someone if it can be proven that they had foreknowledge of the crime and assisted with it.
    Isn't providing a firearm used in a crime assisting?

    Unlikely, since the worst school killing in American history was done with a bomb. And it's pretty well proven that people who have easy access to a gun are much more likely to successfully commit suicide than people who don't.
    Weren't most kids killed in Columbine by firearms? The bomb, as I understand didn't do that much damage.

    So it's somehow better for 50 people to get killed one at a time than 30 all at once?
    No, but one at a time gives the authorities time to stop it. 30 at once doesn't. They're both terrible, but one has more time to prevent more deaths.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #16
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    1. If they knew the person was not eligible to have the gun and intended to use it in a crime. They would already be an accomplice under current law in my state and subject to the same punishment so it would be redundant.
    Are they subject to the same punishment? Last I understand, straw buy punishments generate lesser sentences.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #17
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Are they subject to the same punishment? Last I understand, straw buy punishments generate lesser sentences.
    I guess it would depend on the judge and the underlying crime, but they probably wouldn't get the same time due to the sentencing guidelines. They would likely be under by a chunk would be my gut instinct.

  8. #18
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I guess it would depend on the judge and the underlying crime, but they probably wouldn't get the same time due to the sentencing guidelines. They would likely be under by a chunk would be my gut instinct.
    As I understand it, no straw buy punishment law generates the same punishment. You know your friend has a serious blood feud with a guy and you buy him a gun he cannot legally have and then he goes and kills that guy with the gun you bought? I don't see how you're NOT an accomplice here.

    I don't believe that America needs a wholesale change in gun laws. I think we need tweaks to existing laws. Making straw buyers suffer the same penalty as those who committed the crimes with the firearms purchased for them who had reasonable beliefs about what that buyer would do would help curtail straw buys.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #19
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Isn't providing a firearm used in a crime assisting?
    If it was known that the person was going to commit a crime with it, then yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Weren't most kids killed in Columbine by firearms? The bomb, as I understand didn't do that much damage.
    I'm not talking about Columbine.

    Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    No, but one at a time gives the authorities time to stop it. 30 at once doesn't. They're both terrible, but one has more time to prevent more deaths.
    One at a time also doesn't draw nearly as much attention as 30, and makes it much easier to escape police attention for long periods of time, as evidenced by the fact that most of the really prolific serial killers weren't caught for years, and most people who commit mass shootings are caught or killed almost immediately.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  10. #20
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    Re: Gun Control

    No. I don't support any more gun control legislation than what we currently have, first, because it would amount to further infringement on the 2a, and mostly because it wouldn't likely have any effect on our current gun crime rates.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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