View Poll Results: McCarthyism should be promoted in America

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Thread: McCarthyism

  1. #1
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    McCarthyism

    Recently a poster argued to me that what amounted to McCarthyism was a good thing.

    Who agrees?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Recently a poster argued to me that what amounted to McCarthyism was a good thing.

    Who agrees?
    Any resin that pit human ageist each other with fear of what their ideas could be is bad for the human race to fallow. I recommend using it to destroy a country from within to take it over in the chaos.
    You can refine anything in it's pure form to use for good or evil. This goes for everything, not just materials.

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Whatever anticommunist virtues the man had were far outweighed by his demagoguery. At least Eisenhower pulled the man aside to tell him to cut crap out.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Recently a poster argued to me that what amounted to McCarthyism was a good thing.

    Who agrees?
    I am not an apologist for McCarthy, in any way, but...

    let me ask you this: Do you think that our current , er, heightened awareness of the so-called "Islamic extremism" is a good thing?

    Does it help to prevent slaughter of the innocent?

    Our Canadian friends could be excused in their thinking that it actually does - after having averted yet another mass-murder by deranged fanatics, just today.

    Now, all the Islamic terrorists put together have killed less - much less - than a percentage point of all the people killed by the Commies. I know, this is not a place or time for cold math, but - - -

    ...Put yourself in the shoes of, say, a Russian, or Polish, or Latvian immigrant, an American citizen now - who knows first-hand "what it is all about"...and the year is 1950, not 1995 - the happy end is nowhere in sight.

    Know what I mean?

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I am not an apologist for McCarthy, in any way, but...

    let me ask you this: Do you think that our current , er, heightened awareness of the so-called "Islamic extremism" is a good thing?
    To a degree yes, but that is still centered in the framework of being aware and alert against people who have belief, motive and means. McCarthy went after mere beliefs.

    Does it help to prevent slaughter of the innocent?
    Yes, but what I'm discussing is a move away from looking out for people who have belief, motive and means to a system of surveillance based on the beliefs of people.

    Put yourself in the shoes of, say, a Russian, or Polish, or Latvian immigrant, an American citizen now - who knows first-hand "what it is all about"...and the year is 1950, not 1995 - the happy end is nowhere in sight.

    Know what I mean?
    Yeah, but the ends do not justify the means. Fundamentally the war we face is not decided by who kills more people. It is decided by who's ideas win out. If we abandon what made America great, we have lost the war.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    To a degree yes, but that is still centered in the framework of being aware and alert against people who have belief, motive and means. McCarthy went after mere beliefs.
    To be fair, many of the people McCarthy went after actually did have substantial ties to Communist political organizations which were actively communicating with Moscow. Many (if not most) of these organizations also absolutely were plotting against the United States Government and offering aid to Soviet agents.

    In this regard, McCarthy's little crusade actually did do some good by outing a significant number of potential subversives in positions of high power and influence in American society. The problem was that he took things a tad too far, and the whole thing wound up deteriorating into a circus witch hunt as a result.

    I would honestly classify the whole episode as being as being something of a "necessary evil." It was rightly put to an end when it overstepped its boundaries.

    Yeah, but the ends do not justify the means. Fundamentally the war we face is not decided by who kills more people. It is decided by who's ideas win out. If we abandon what made America great, we have lost the war.
    We would appear to have "won" anyway regardless of our temporary lapse in ethics.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 04-23-13 at 02:44 AM.

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    If we abandon what made America great, we have lost the war.
    I couldn't agree more.

    But let's have a reality check here: The "victims" of McCarthyism could lose their jobs. The victims of Stalinism were guaranteed to lose their lives - the same goes for their relatives, co-workers and (suspected) sympathizers.

    Don't we 'lose the war' the moment we forget what the 'war' is all about, the moment we abandon the sense of proportion, in our moral judgment?

    No, it is not healthy, not normal, not rational, to look for a Stalinist - or , say, Jihadist - infiltrator under every bed. But if it will save an innocent life - or a hundred of innocent lives - to hell with health, normalcy and rationality, honestly.

    Real people do matter. Abstractions - however noble-sounding - are of limited use.

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I couldn't agree more.

    But let's have a reality check here: The "victims" of McCarthyism could lose their jobs. The victims of Stalinism were guaranteed to lose their lives - the same goes for their relatives, co-workers and (suspected) sympathizers.
    But the 1950s are not the times we face today. Muslims terrorists cannot bring down the West.

    Don't we 'lose the war' the moment we forget what the 'war' is all about, the moment we abandon the sense of proportion, in our moral judgment?

    No, it is not healthy, not normal, not rational, to look for a Stalinist - or , say, Jihadist - infiltrator under every bed. But if it will save an innocent life - or a hundred of innocent lives - to hell with health, normalcy and rationality, honestly.
    And fiscal responsibility. And the Constitution. And the thousands of people we infringe upon who pose absolutely no threat.

    Real people do matter. Abstractions - however noble-sounding - are of limited use.
    But does that mean we enact a USSR Secret Police? Sure, having a massive big brother program that spies on people for what they believe COULD save people, but is that what we want?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #9
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    To be fair, many of the people McCarthy went after actually did have substantial ties to Communist polical organizations which were actively communicating with Moscow. Many (if not most) of these organizations also bsolutely were plotting against the United States Government and offering aid to Soviet agents.

    In this regard, McCarthy's little crusade actually did do some good by outing a significant number of potential subversives in positions of high power and influence in American society. The problem was that he took things a tad too far, and the whole thing wound up deteriorating into a circus witch hunt as a result.

    I would honestly classify the whole episode as being as being something of a "necessary evil." It was rightly put to an end when it overstepped its boundaries.



    We would appear to have "won" anyway regardless of our temporary lapse in ethics.
    Of the actual names of McCarthys "list" 9 on the 159 were soviet spies. That would be a 94.3% failure rate. That is not "necessary evil" that is "incompetent evil".

    Someone actually interested in hunting spies quietly investigates the situation to avoid alerting the suspects. They don't make wild public accusations accusing innocent people with no evidence whatsoever.

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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Of the actual names of McCarthys "list" 9 on the 159 were soviet spies. That would be a 94.3% failure rate. That is not "necessary evil" that is "incompetent evil".

    Someone actually interested in hunting spies quietly investigates the situation to avoid alerting the suspects. They don't make wild public accusations accusing innocent people with no evidence whatsoever.
    Even if they were not active spies, many of the individuals questioned by the House Committee on Un-American Activities did have ties to Communist organizations that were connected with Moscow. Outing them from positions of high power and influence arguably was for the greater good, because it denied actual spies the ability to potentially use these individuals' positions to their advantage.

    That being said, however; McCarthyism did ultimately go far beyond that. Targeting homosexuals and so called "deviants" in general on that basis alone was completely unjustifiable.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 04-23-13 at 03:13 AM.

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