View Poll Results: McCarthyism should be promoted in America

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Thread: McCarthyism

  1. #41
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Even if they were not active spies, many of the individuals questioned by the House Committee on Un-American Activities did have ties to Communist organizations that were connected with Moscow. Outing them from positions of high power and influence arguably was for the greater good, because it denied actual spies the ability to potentially use these individuals' positions to their advantage.

    That being said, however; McCarthyism did ultimately go far beyond that. Targeting homosexuals and so called "deviants" in general on that basis alone was completely unjustifiable.
    It was hysteria for the most part.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  2. #42
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    It was hysteria for the most part.
    Records from the KGB archives declassfied since the end of the COld War have shown that the Russians actually did have fairly massive spy networks operating in the US, and that these networks were closely affiliated with groups like CPUSA.

    McCarthy initially may have had more of a point than most people realize.

  3. #43
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Records from the KGB archives declassfied since the end of the COld War have shown that the Russians actually did have fairly massive spy networks operating in the US, and that these networks were closely affiliated with groups like CPUSA.

    McCarthy initially may have had more of a point than most people realize.

    the whole reds under the bed stuff was hysteria. many people who were not at all involved or a risk were blacklisted and victimised.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  4. #44
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Really?

    I suggest you cross reference this list of innocent people named by McCarthy, with the declassified Venona Project.
    If you had bothered to read my link, you would it provides that information in exhaustive detail.

  5. #45
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Again, you're conflating McCarthy with the HUAC which he had nothing to do with. The senate hearings which McCarthy presided over were for government employees in positions that could compromise the security of the nation. They were all under contract and oath that made their political associations matters of state inquiry.
    Being a government employee does not mean you can be accused with evidence, nor were all the people that McCarthy accused government employees, most notably Fred Fisher.

    Far different standard than going after the Hollywood set.
    McCarthy's alcoholism would have made him a potential security risk under federal guidelines, funny how he never applied those standards to himself.

    If no such definitive list ever existed how can you use this one to prove he was wrong?
    I have demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of people actually named by McCarthy were innocent. The idea that the burden of proof lies upon me to discredit a list that does not even exist is ridiculous. I have been more than generous considering that the accuser is required to prove their case according the standards of this nation.

  6. #46
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Guilty by association is wrong...period.

  7. #47
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Neither communists in Russia nor communist sympathizers in America were "social pariahs' either. Typically, they were upper or middle class, and 'differences' were entirely political.
    I don't know about Pre-war Russia, but communists in post war America were the very definition of social pariahs. Being upper class and the fact that the difference were political didn't save them from social ostracization.


    Things change. Russia had economic and social conditions rapidly improving before the WWI. Then the war derailed the whole country. In the case of 1950s, the wars were underway - both the Cold War, and the really hot one, in Korea. The USSR was ascendant, just having installed puppet regimes in half of Eurasia. The economy was doing well in the Ike's USA, but they also faced an existential threat we hardly can imagine now.
    There is simply now way you can honestly claim that pre WW1 Russia was anywhere near the stability of post WW2 America. Russia had been crushed by Japan on the battlefield, had a revolt that forced an unwilling monarch to share power and revolutionary socialists winning a large quantity of seats in Parliament. Even without WW1, the situation was clearly a power keg. The biggest political upheaval in post war America was a peaceful movement to promote racial equality.

  8. #48
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    the whole reds under the bed stuff was hysteria. many people who were not at all involved or a risk were blacklisted and victimised.
    The Cons are still at it, keeping the fear alive. it's Muslims! and terrorists! nowadays, but things haven't evolved much.

    One "benefit" of Macarthyism was that Sam Wanamaker was exiled to London, and spent twentyfive years working to build the replica of Shakespeare's "Globe" theatre.

    Wooden O – Shakespeare's Globe Theatre
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    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  9. #49
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Being a government employee does not mean you can be accused with evidence, nor were all the people that McCarthy accused government employees, most notably Fred Fisher.
    Huh? Fred Fisher was an associate to the law firm representing some Army officials in the hearings investigating commies in the Army. You don't know what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    McCarthy's alcoholism would have made him a potential security risk under federal guidelines, funny how he never applied those standards to himself.
    The alcoholism didn't begin until after his name was made into a slur. Again, you don't know what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    I have demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of people actually named by McCarthy were innocent. The idea that the burden of proof lies upon me to discredit a list that does not even exist is ridiculous. I have been more than generous considering that the accuser is required to prove their case according the standards of this nation.
    Huh? First you post a list and use it as proof McCarthy was wrong, then you say the list doesn't exist. Which is it? Nevermind I know, the list never existed. and the nonsense you posted, not accurate.

  10. #50
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    Re: McCarthyism

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    I don't know about Pre-war Russia, but communists in post war America were the very definition of social pariahs. Being upper class and the fact that the difference were political didn't save them from social ostracization.
    Nonsense, in fact there was a social cache to being a commie in certain circles. And they used popular girls, it was a recruitment tactic. Knowing guys would convert to anything to get the girl they actively recruited pretty girls (honeypot). Look, there are still people alive who were adults during that age. Before you go spouting your stuff best make sure they're all dead first so no one will know you're spinning.


    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    There is simply now way you can honestly claim that pre WW1 Russia was anywhere near the stability of post WW2 America. Russia had been crushed by Japan on the battlefield, had a revolt that forced an unwilling monarch to share power and revolutionary socialists winning a large quantity of seats in Parliament. Even without WW1, the situation was clearly a power keg. The biggest political upheaval in post war America was a peaceful movement to promote racial equality.
    Again, you need to learn a whole lot more before you go off on subjects like this. The Japanese didn't crush the Russians, it was the Germans that nearly took Russia, but in the end the Russians crushed them and were victorious. Stalin was in power throughout the war. My goodness, never heard of Yalta?
    Last edited by clownboy; 04-25-13 at 01:10 PM.

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