View Poll Results: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

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Thread: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  1. #441
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    How about someone walking around with a bomb strapped to their body? How about personal possession of a nuclear warhead? I can name off dozens if your imagination is running short. We have developed many very dangerous and very destructive mechanisms - take your pick.
    I don't think that fits Federalist's description of someone who has not harmed anyone. The existence of radioactive material or explosive material in a family's close proximity carries such a threat that it might fit the definition of assault. Similarly, I wind up and look like I'm about to punch you in the face and give you the impression you're about to be battered, that is assault, even though I technically have not caused you harm (yet).

  2. #442
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I don't think that fits Federalist's description of someone who has not harmed anyone. The existence of radioactive material or explosive material in a family's close proximity carries such a threat that it might fit the definition of assault. Similarly, I wind up and look like I'm about to punch you in the face and give you the impression you're about to be battered, that is assault, even though I technically have not caused you harm (yet).
    Of course it does. No harm has been done at all, not one single hair ruffled nor one penny of damages nor one penny stolen.


    C-4 is plenty stable to not pose a inherent threat from instability.
    The nuke doesn't have to be stored near anyone, so radioactivity from it is not an issue.
    Ditto for nerve gas and contagions.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-05-13 at 01:58 AM.
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  3. #443
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I'm not hung up on it, I just keep having to repeat myself because no one advocating for this seems can figure it out.

    If under this "right to a job" idea, employment still takes the form of a literal employment contract, with all the elements thereof, then it is that contract which specifies who has a right to what and tied to what responsibilities or under what conditions.

    Having an absolute and positive right to something means zero conditions on your side of the contract.
    I didn't say you had an absolute right to a job at all, I said that you could (and should) have a right to a job.

    No it's not, because free speech is a negative right.
    ...Which changes exactly what in regards to my point?

    I think you've just yet to grasp it.
    Clearly that's it. [/sarcasm]


    Well it is possible that people can agree on delusional things that don't make the least bit of sense.
    Ah, you're one of those.

    It's not bizarre logic at all. Employment is a two-man dance, and you can't guarantee one of those men a deal that both have to strike in voluntary mutual agreement.
    Employment between private individuals? Sure.

    Not if it was a guaranteed right to be provided by the government.

    We have a right to negotiate contracts with one another.
    Says whom?

    We don't have a right to any other person accepting whatever we're offering.
    Again, says whom?

  4. #444
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    How about someone walking around with a bomb strapped to their body?
    Such a person would most likely be prevented from entering anyone's property but his own.

    How about personal possession of a nuclear warhead, nerve gas, or biological agent? (Note that many biological agents aren't even visible.) I can name off dozens if your imagination is running short. We have developed many very dangerous and very destructive mechanisms & devices - take your pick.
    None of these are a danger in and of themselves, nor do any of them require the initiation of interpersonal violence.

    And let's remember, we're not talking about nukes. We're talking about initiating interpersonal violence against a hairdresser.

  5. #445
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Such a person would most likely be prevented from entering anyone's property but his own.
    Why would he need to do that? Maybe he's just traveling from his apartment to his buddy's apartment. Is it still OK if he walks down the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    None of these are a danger in and of themselves, nor do any of them require the initiation of interpersonal violence.

    And let's remember, we're not talking about nukes. We're talking about initiating interpersonal violence against a hairdresser.
    No, we're talking about a matter of policy and where you draw the line. Obviously you draw a line somewhere because the gunman pointing a loaded weapon at someone has hurt no one, has damaged no property, and has stolen nothing. Why is he not acceptable but owning a nuke or chemical weapon is acceptable? How is the guy with the bomb any different from the gunman?
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Why would he need to do that? Maybe he's just traveling from his apartment to his buddy's apartment. Is it still OK if he walks down the street?
    It would depend upon the owners of the street and the conditions they place upon those who use it. It is unlikely that they would allow people who have bombs strapped to themselves.


    No, we're talking about a matter of policy and where you draw the line. Obviously you draw a line somewhere because the gunman pointing a loaded weapon at someone has hurt no one, has damaged no property, and has stolen nothing. Why is he not acceptable but owning a nuke or chemical weapon is acceptable? How is the guy with the bomb any different from the gunman?
    I draw the line at the poi t where someone acts to initiate harm to the person or property of others.

  7. #447
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    It would depend upon the owners of the street and the conditions they place upon those who use it. It is unlikely that they would allow people who have bombs strapped to themselves.
    Oh, yeah, I forgot the world of the Property Mongers. LOL! What? Did you read The Probability Broach at some point? That's a work of fiction, you know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I draw the line at the poi t where someone acts to initiate harm to the person or property of others.
    No you don't because no one is harmed by a pointed weapon, or any other kind of weapon, until it's been used.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #448
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Oh, yeah, I forgot the world of the Property Mongers. LOL! What? Did you read The Probability Broach at some point? That's a work of fiction, you know.


    No you don't because no one is harmed by a pointed weapon, or any other kind of weapon, until it's been used.
    Threatening someone with a weapon can be harmful, maybe not physically, but it is an act of violence.

  9. #449
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Threatening someone with a weapon can be harmful, maybe not physically, but it is an act of violence.
    Is this in respect to this fantasy world or are you talking about real life? If you're not talking about Fantasy Land then it doesn't matter to the conversation him and I are having. Didn't you just read, in Fantasy Land someone else gets to dictate what you can and cannot transport to and from your own home.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-05-13 at 07:25 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #450
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Oh, yeah, I forgot the world of the Property Mongers. LOL! What? Did you read The Probability Broach at some point? That's a work of fiction, you know.

    No you don't because no one is harmed by a pointed weapon, or any other kind of weapon, until it's been used.
    The threat of an attack IS an act of violence. That is the definition of assault. Assault is the threat, and battery is the actual attack.

    So, to spell things out for you, in what scenarios would you consider it justifiable for some people in a community who have arrived at a consensus to initiate violence against a person who has not harmed, or threatened to harm, any person or person's property?

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