View Poll Results: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  1. #401
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Good point. S&P would never survive in a free society.
    You should read more about the ratings industry before trying to make that claim stick.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-03-13 at 03:24 PM.
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  2. #402
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You should read more about the ratings industry before trying to make that claim stick.
    If you think that S&P did a good job rating mortgage-backed securities, and would be used by investors in a free society, well you certainly are entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you though.

  3. #403
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I've never said increasing our population was a good thing but there's almost no way to stop it.
    China didn't significantly slow it with their birth policy? (Honestly don't know, but I assumed they did, one child by default I think it was).

    Personally, I think suburbia and increased job mobility killed the community feeling in America. Hard to care about the effects of a local policy 5-10 years up the line when you've just moved into an area or are thinking about taking that job 1000 miles away. Centralized government is the only cohesion we have.
    Outrageous. We're all digitally connected now, we know more about each other and have more shared experience as a nation than every before in history. Far more privatized government functions is the most important cohesion we need. If you require big government to love me and be willing to fight to defend my freedom, then I don't really want that kind of "cohesion". I love you and I don't know you. (civic love, not man love, not that there is anything wrong with that

    I think it tends to make us think more about other people in our society that live in different situations then we do. And, honestly, I think there's very little "planning" about it. The major ebb and flow of public opinion is what guides (not dictates) law and, in some ways, it always has.
    I think you spending your short time on this earth thinking about someone else's situation is a little creepy, and certainly inefficient. Why would I want you thinking about my situation and getting involved in it? Sounds backwards to me. For extreme cases sure, but day to day stuff and community? Even with an HOA with almost unlimited power in the community, you can't solve it all, and that's with a nice budget, and

  4. #404
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    If you think that S&P did a good job rating mortgage-backed securities, and would be used by investors in a free society, well you certainly are entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you though.
    Like I said, do some reading about the ratings industry before trying to make that stick. There are plenty of small companies out there that would love a share of that pie with nothing in their way but history.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  5. #405
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    China didn't significantly slow it with their birth policy? (Honestly don't know, but I assumed they did, one child by default I think it was).
    You really want to enact Chinese policy here? I can't believe that. I didn't add caveats to my statement because I figured they were obvious.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Outrageous. We're all digitally connected now, we know more about each other and have more shared experience as a nation than every before in history. Far more privatized government functions is the most important cohesion we need. If you require big government to love me and be willing to fight to defend my freedom, then I don't really want that kind of "cohesion". I love you and I don't know you. (civic love, not man love, not that there is anything wrong with that
    Replacing Big Government with Big Business won't make matters better and could easily make them worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I think you spending your short time on this earth thinking about someone else's situation is a little creepy, and certainly inefficient. Why would I want you thinking about my situation and getting involved in it? Sounds backwards to me. For extreme cases sure, but day to day stuff and community? Even with an HOA with almost unlimited power in the community, you can't solve it all, and that's with a nice budget, and
    Personally, I like to know what we're getting into when I vote - not just what it means for me but what it means for others as well. If you want to vote otherwise that's your privilege.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #406
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You really want to enact Chinese policy here? I can't believe that. I didn't add caveats to my statement because I figured they were obvious.
    My wanting or not wanting to implement it is irrelevant to countering your claim that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosurveyor
    there's almost no way to stop it.
    One of the largest economies/nations in the world has had policy to slow it, in reality, and you're acting as though it's something that's beyond common knowledge. If you wanted to slow population enough, you may choose to do nearly anything. If slowing population is not as big of a deal as forcing people to reduce population growth, then it's probably not a big deal. Either way, it calls your bluff.

    Replacing Big Government with Big Business won't make matters better and could easily make them worse.
    Nonsense. you'll go buy **** on amazon or go to Target, or use Google and you'll -love it in private, and then bemoan the perils of big business on the forums? It's so silly.

    Also, trivially Private != big business, don't small/med businesses make up a large portion of the ecosystem?

    Personally, I like to know what we're getting into when I vote - not just what it means for me but what it means for others as well. If you want to vote otherwise that's your privilege.
    Reduce the amount of things you have control to vote on, distribute those privileges back to the people, and you'll have more time to spend pondering the remaining civic issues. Solves your problem and mine, how's about that.

  7. #407
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    You can bet that I will leave it to the U.S. government to fight our wars.
    You think the government should be waging war on unlicensed hairdressers, do you?

  8. #408
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    My wanting or not wanting to implement it is irrelevant to countering your claim that:

    One of the largest economies/nations in the world has had policy to slow it, in reality, and you're acting as though it's something that's beyond common knowledge. If you wanted to slow population enough, you may choose to do nearly anything. If slowing population is not as big of a deal as forcing people to reduce population growth, then it's probably not a big deal. Either way, it calls your bluff.
    What you stated doesn't actually counter it, either, since I said "almost". If you "called" then you lost.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Nonsense. you'll go buy **** on amazon or go to Target, or use Google and you'll -love it in private, and then bemoan the perils of big business on the forums? It's so silly.

    Also, trivially Private != big business, don't small/med businesses make up a large portion of the ecosystem?
    You have no clue what I do in private so your assertions are even worse than silly.

    As to "bemoan[ing] the perils of big business", I very much trust business to do what it does best - make money in the most efficient way it can. If that means breaking laws, they gladly do it. If that means getting sued, they gladly do it. As long as it makes money, agrees with whatever business model they've adopted, and doesn't involve actual jail time for their officers, they will do it if they can. I have zero problems with that because that's their role in our society and it's a vital one. But anyone who thinks otherwise of business isn't being very prudent or they're not being very honest. You might find exceptions in smaller businesses but as a general rule that's why business is there, to make as much money as possible for the people who own them.


    Firms of 1000+ employees make up almost ~39% of the workforce. The next step, 500-999, is another 7% and 250-499 is another 7%. That's ~53% of the work force. Where do you draw the line between "big" and "medium"?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Reduce the amount of things you have control to vote on, distribute those privileges back to the people, and you'll h ave more time to spend pondering the remaining civic issues. Solves your problem and mine, how's about that.
    The government is the people. Where do you live that you think otherwise?


    I think it's naive because whether I vote at the Fed, state, county, or city level they're the same issues.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-03-13 at 05:11 PM.
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  9. #409
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What you stated doesn't actually counter it, either, since I said "almost". If you "called" then you lost.
    As long as you agree it's entirely possible, as evidenced in realty, then there is no further rebuttal needed.

    You have no clue what I do in private so your assertions are even worse than silly.
    I don't need to know specifics, but you're in absurd territory now Mo. Please tell us generally, no specifics or private information needed, do you really not engage the services, day in day out, in nearly all aspects of your from finance, to retirement, to health, the food, shelter, from big corporations in one form or another? Your fingers are typing things that are in contradiction to your life. I will accept it if you tell me you really do not use and defacto trust through behavior, big corporations. You'll have to be a hermit or something I assume, and no shame in that, sounds kind of neat actually.

    The fact is like nearly every other person in our society you trust those services because there is VERY little risk in dealing with companies in the U.S., compared to the alternatives. We have fairly low levels of corruption, legal recourse, and companies are largely restricted to providing you what they say they will, with all sorts of guarantees, federal insurance, etc. etc., etc.
    As to "bemoan[ing] the perils of big business", I very much trust business to do what it does best - make money in the most efficient way it can. If that means breaking laws, they gladly do it.
    Oh boy. All want to be law breakers eh? Wow. That must extend to you too then, because business is made up of humans, and you're a human. So they are better at then you, is that you're problem with it?
    Firms of 1000+ employees make up almost ~39% of the workforce. The next step, 500-999, is another 7% and 250-499 is another 7%. That's ~53% of the work force. Where do you draw the line between "big" and "medium"?
    Draw it there for now, 50/50 is enough to be recognized.
    So you don't trust the big employers?
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    United States Department of Defense 3.2 million United States
    People's Liberation Army 2.3 million People's Republic of China
    Walmart 2.1 million United States
    McDonald's 1.9 million (including franchises) United States
    National Health Service 1.7 million United Kingdom
    China National Petroleum Corporation 1.6 million People's Republic of China
    State Grid Corporation of China 1.5 million People's Republic of China
    Indian Railways 1.4 million India
    Indian Armed Forces 1.3 million India
    Hon Hai Precision Industry (Foxconn) 1.2 million Taiwan
    ============================
    Seems you have more cause to distrust government given they are some of the biggest employers right? Surely more to distrust than say McDonalds right? Walmart? I mean, you do realize you can like, oh I don't know, not shop at Walmart, or not eat at McDonalds right? Have you tried fighting government as opposed to "driving past Walmart"?

    The government is the people. Where do you live that you think otherwise? I think it's naive because whether I vote at the Fed, state, county, or city level they're the same issues.
    Government is the people? That statement makes no sense, it's like you're reciting something you heard once and it sounded neat.
    Government is either government, or it's not government. Did you mean government is identical to the governed? That's illogical. Did you mean citizens participate in government? That's true, but if citizens also participate in their own choices distinct from government (like you not eating at McDonalds) and if government no longer owns that choice, the citizen gets to then fully control that choice. If you cannot understand the obvious, basic, fundamental, difference in these two concepts, I understand and will attempt to discuss it with someone who does.

  10. #410
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    As long as you agree it's entirely possible, as evidenced in realty, then there is no further rebuttal needed.
    I never said it was completely impossible. That's wrong on it's face since we could just choose a several thousand people at random each week and shoot them. Soilent Green - YUM!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I don't need to know specifics, but you're in absurd territory now Mo. Please tell us generally, no specifics or private information needed, do you really not engage the services, day in day out, in nearly all aspects of your from finance, to retirement, to health, the food, shelter, from big corporations in one form or another? Your fingers are typing things that are in contradiction to your life. I will accept it if you tell me you really do not use and defacto trust through behavior, big corporations. You'll have to be a hermit or something I assume, and no shame in that, sounds kind of neat actually.

    The fact is like nearly every other person in our society you trust those services because there is VERY little risk in dealing with companies in the U.S., compared to the alternatives. We have fairly low levels of corruption, legal recourse, and companies are largely restricted to providing you what they say they will, with all sorts of guarantees, federal insurance, etc. etc., etc.

    Oh boy. All want to be law breakers eh? Wow. That must extend to you too then, because business is made up of humans, and you're a human. So they are better at then you, is that you're problem with it?
    Draw it there for now, 50/50 is enough to be recognized.
    So you don't trust the big employers?

    Seems you have more cause to distrust government given they are some of the biggest employers right? Surely more to distrust than say McDonalds right? Walmart? I mean, you do realize you can like, oh I don't know, not shop at Walmart, or not eat at McDonalds right? Have you tried fighting government as opposed to "driving past Walmart"?
    You really don't get it, do you? Your only recourse was the shotgun effect: name as many dumb things and misinterpretations as possible to try to refute the obvious - that business is only there to make as much money as possible for it's owners.
    *shakes head*


    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Government is the people? That statement makes no sense, it's like you're reciting something you heard once and it sounded neat.
    Government is either government, or it's not government. Did you mean government is identical to the governed? That's illogical. Did you mean citizens participate in government? That's true, but if citizens also participate in their own choices distinct from government (like you not eating at McDonalds) and if government no longer owns that choice, the citizen gets to then fully control that choice.
    I think we've all seen it written but it's obvious many have forgotten and/or were never taught what it means. You obviously have no concept of team work or community and I can't explain blue to someone who's color blind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    If you cannot understand the obvious, basic, fundamental, difference in these two concepts, I understand and will attempt to discuss it with someone who does.
    Oh, I understand the differences all too well and my conclusions don't agree with yours. So, if you insist that I agree, then you may as well go preach at someone else. I will not pat you on the back and rave about how logical and rational your philosophy is while ignoring reality. Maybe someone else will.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-03-13 at 06:37 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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