View Poll Results: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

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Thread: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  1. #311
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    It eliminates a whole crapload of interpersonal violence.
    History has shown a lack of governance increases violence. Your statement is unsupported and unsupportable.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-02-13 at 04:38 AM.
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  2. #312
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    You miss the point. Babilfish is refusing to admit that's how it works. Where it would get us, is that his argument would be consistent.

    The debate has never been about whether or not government should take via taxation, it's how much, and for what purpose. Trying to make it an absolute argument as you are doing is strawman.
    It's not a strawman. It's forcing the realization that government out of necessity taxes people, which, by some people's definition, means it uses "interpersonal violence" to take money - in effect, theft. But if government is to exist at all it must do this. That isn't theft, it's a community understanding and consensus that we all must pay taxes for the system to function.

    What taxes are collected and to what purposes they are used then becomes a matter of voting and policy, not a matter of infringing on people. We revolted against the British not because of their taxes but because we had no say in those taxes, no representation. From what I've seen on DP, many people today apparently fail to realize this and they certainly don't seem to remember that the 16th Amendment is also part of the Constitution whether they like and/or approve of it or not. The "theft" argument is the strawman, here.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-02-13 at 04:51 AM.
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  3. #313
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    History has shown a lack of governance increases violence. Your statement is unsupported and unsupportable.
    I'm not arguing for a lack of governance. I'm arguing against the initiation of interpersonal violence against innocent people.

  4. #314
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I'm not arguing for a lack of governance. I'm arguing against the initiation of interpersonal violence against innocent people.
    You certainly seem to be. Shall I quote our last exchange?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Then the government may as well close it's doors since any taxation takes from some and gives to others. And where does that get us?
    It eliminates a whole crapload of interpersonal violence.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #315
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You certainly seem to be. Shall I quote our last exchange?
    We simply disagree on whether a government that initiates interpersonal violence is the only effective means of governance.

    But I suppose it gets to the question of what activities you actually mean when you refer to governance.

  6. #316
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    We simply disagree on whether a government that initiates interpersonal violence is the only effective means of governance.

    But I suppose it gets to the question of what activities you actually mean when you refer to governance.
    I think it has more to do with what YOU think "governance" means. I use the normal definition.

    Hard to pay for even police and fire without taxes, let alone an army and navy - even small ones. The money to support those things has to come from somewhere. The money to maintain the White House and Congress has to come from somewhere - or will you do away with the president and our representatives, as well?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #317
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I think it has more to do with what YOU think "governance" means. I use the normal definition.
    I would regard governance as the rules of a society that are intended to facilitate peaceful coexistence.

    And the most basic rule of peaceful coexistence is that it is wrong to initiate interpersonal violence against people who have harmed no other person or person's property.

    Hard to pay for even police and fire without taxes, let alone an army and navy - even small ones. The money to support those things has to come from somewhere.
    Yes, if people want services they must pay for them. I don't argue with that. I only argue against the forcible taking of other's property to pay for services for which they haven't asked.

    The money to maintain the White House and Congress has to come from somewhere - or will you do away with the president and our representatives, as well?
    What service do they provide for which people might be willing to pay?

  8. #318
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Surfing the net, I came across this.



    The Right to a job | Socialist Equality Party

    Interesting point of view. What do you think? Is having a job a right?

    Adding the poll right now. Answers will be yes, no and I don't know.
    Nobody has a right to a job, but everybody has a right to do whatever work they wan without being required to obtain government licensure. The socialists had it backwards.

  9. #319
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Scraps? I know a lot of people in landscaping...
    That's nice, I'm not sure how it answers my point that it's still a scare industry. You can't possibly shore up the large amounts of unemployed by telling them to turn towards cutting grass and cleaning houses, and it's ridiculous that you proposed such in the first place.

    This does nothing to change the fact that government is forcing person X to give it money
    Good god, not more bitching about taxes...

    and then turning right around and hiring person Y.
    Yes, with money that is it's own now, to do wish as it's mandated by the citizenry.

    Again, nothing having to do with employers being forced to employ anyone.

    God, what is wrong with conservatives? Honestly, if they're not dismissing the plights of the jobless they're misrepresenting the actual functions of government for whatever stupid nonsense they imagine government does.

  10. #320
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Nobody has a right to a job, but everybody has a right to do whatever work they wan without being required to obtain government licensure. The socialists had it backwards.
    I agree that licensing requirements have gotten ridiculous. Here, surveying land, installing an alarm, or even cutting hair without a license are criminal offenses.

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