View Poll Results: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

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Thread: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  1. #301
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    The poor and jobless can just fight amongst each other to find someone who doesn't cut their own grass.
    Sounds productive. Sounds like they will actively, individually, seek out areas of the market that value their service. unemployed people, working hard, outrageous right? That you don't think it's reasonable is unsettling.

    Quote Originally Posted by babilfish View Post
    Also, I have to chuckle at the notion that the government "forces employment on employers" by...employing people with the money it taxes from employers.
    It's the sort of thing that sounds like it would kind of make sense in your head...until you take three seconds to think about it and realize it's nonsense.
    So you can't show why it's wrong, you just "disagree". That's no different than forfeiting the position, you do realize that? No really, describe what you mean and how it's NOT like what I wrote above. I will gladly accept your own words rather than the logical implication that we're left to conclude based on the little information you were brave enough to provide. I agree that it's nonsense for the voters that don't earn enough to actually pay their portion of the federals/state spending burden, it's only a minority that is largely bearing the burden of taxing so government can spend on XYZ.

  2. #302
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Violence?
    Behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

    I continue to hold that the ONLY justification for violence is in RESPONSE to someone acting to uninvitedly affect another's person or property. You may continue to hold that interpersonal violence is okay to use against those who have harmed no one.

  3. #303
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

    I continue to hold that the ONLY justification for violence is in RESPONSE to someone acting to uninvitedly affect another's person or property. You may continue to hold that interpersonal violence is okay to use against those who have harmed no one.
    Where did i claim that "interpersonal violence" is ok?


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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Absolutely not. If someone else has to provide it for you then it is not a right. You have the right to work and seek a job, but you do not have a right to be employed or that someone else must employ you.
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Sounds productive.
    Actually, it doesn't. Not to any sane, rational person at least.

    We don't need people fighting over the scraps to be gotten from already incredibly scare job industries. We need to find some way to get large amounts of people who want to work back to work, as we owe them that much.

    It's almost evil, the things that you're saying. Lucky for you, I don't think you're really thinking this through, and that just saves your proposal from being evil.

    So you can't show why it's wrong, you just "disagree".
    After the government taxes you, it's their money. How they spend it is often shaped by the political electorate, but it is no longer the money of business owners. Business owners are not forced to employ anyone.

    It's incredibly simple. That you think otherwise sort of shows how delusional you and the rest of the conservative movement is.

  6. #306
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Where did i claim that "interpersonal violence" is ok?
    I gathered as much from this exchange:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    These government people are not justified in turning around and demanding that I and others pay for their choice to hire these people.
    Then we will have to agree to disagree
    From your response, I took you to mean that you thought that the government people ARE justified in demanding that others pay for their choice to hire these people. And of course, you know that these demands are backed up by the threat of interpersonal violence, so I have to conclude that you feel that interpersonal violence against those who have not harmed anyone or anyone's property is justified.

    Did I misunderstand?

  7. #307
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I gathered as much from this exchange:

    From your response, I took you to mean that you thought that the government people ARE justified in demanding that others pay for their choice to hire these people. And of course, you know that these demands are backed up by the threat of interpersonal violence, so I have to conclude that you feel that interpersonal violence against those who have not harmed anyone or anyone's property is justified.

    Did I misunderstand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    So you can't show why it's wrong, you just "disagree". That's no different than forfeiting the position, you do realize that? No really, describe what you mean and how it's NOT like what I wrote above. I will gladly accept your own words rather than the logical implication that we're left to conclude based on the little information you were brave enough to provide. I agree that it's nonsense for the voters that don't earn enough to actually pay their portion of the federals/state spending burden, it's only a minority that is largely bearing the burden of taxing so government can spend on XYZ.
    Then the government may as well close it's doors since any taxation takes from some and gives to others. And where does that get us?
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  8. #308
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Then the government may as well close it's doors since any taxation takes from some and gives to others. And where does that get us?
    It eliminates a whole crapload of interpersonal violence.

  9. #309
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by babilfish View Post
    Actually, it doesn't. Not to any sane, rational person at least. We don't need people fighting over the scraps to be gotten from already incredibly scare job industries. We need to find some way to get large amounts of people who want to work back to work, as we owe them that much.
    Scraps? I know a lot of people in landscaping, you're telling me they are all just settling for scraps. Where do you get off making such comments? You'd rather them NOT do that work, NOT get paid? Talk about evil.

    After the government taxes you, it's their money. How they spend it is often shaped by the political electorate, but it is no longer the money of business owners. Business owners are not forced to employ anyone.
    This does nothing to change the fact that government is forcing person X to give it money, and then turning right around and hiring person Y. You deny it here:
    Also, I have to chuckle at the notion that the government "forces employment on employers" by...employing people with the money it taxes from employers.
    It's the sort of thing that sounds like it would kind of make sense in your head...until you take three seconds to think about it and realize it's nonsense.
    But then you refuse to admit you're denying it. You are in contradiction with your claim. I wouldn't call you evil for being incorrect, just incorrect. Don't try to make this about you being the judge of what is good and evil, that's more absurd than your contradiction above.

  10. #310
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Then the government may as well close it's doors since any taxation takes from some and gives to others. And where does that get us?
    You miss the point. Babilfish is refusing to admit that's how it works. Where it would get us, is that his argument would be consistent.

    The debate has never been about whether or not government should take via taxation, it's how much, and for what purpose. Trying to make it an absolute argument as you are doing is strawman.

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