View Poll Results: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

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  • Yes

    22 14.67%
  • No

    125 83.33%
  • I don't know.

    3 2.00%
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Thread: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  1. #251
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Would you agree that spending this way is just a different sort of "tax," e.g. a prospective tax (debt) or retrospective one (tax against savers)?

    I assume no, but I don't entirely understand why not.

    Anyway, overall it's unbelievable that 3 out of 20 around here think people have a right to be furnished with some sort of job to do, doing who-cares-what. I think these people do not understand basic human psychology. Adult humans are not psychologically capable of being this utterly helplessly dependent on the external for all their needs. It's just not healthy.
    If one is working, they are not dependent, they are supplying themselves income by working.

    Every employee would then be dependent under your definition.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    My jobsite is flooded.

  3. #253
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    Stop here. The government isn't stealing, it doesn't need tax revenue to spend.
    I'm not talking about taxes. I'm talking about creating claims to goods where no claim previously existed.

    Here's a question: A guy wants a new flat screen TV, but doesn't have the money. He goes to his shop and produces a stack of $20 bills, perfect in their execution and indistinguishable from the real thing. He then goes and uses these new bills to buy the TV.

    Do you consider this to be stealing? Do you think he has harmed anyone?

    And by the way, you never really answered the original question: Do they have a right to demand that others feed, shelter, and clothe them. Does this imply that someone out there has a legal obligation to feed, shelter, and clothe them?

  4. #254
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I'm not talking about taxes. I'm talking about creating claims to goods where no claim previously existed.

    Here's a question: A guy wants a new flat screen TV, but doesn't have the money. He goes to his shop and produces a stack of $20 bills, perfect in their execution and indistinguishable from the real thing. He then goes and uses these new bills to buy the TV.

    Do you consider this to be stealing? Do you think he has harmed anyone?

    And by the way, you never really answered the original question: Do they have a right to demand that others feed, shelter, and clothe them. Does this imply that someone out there has a legal obligation to feed, shelter, and clothe them?
    I did answer it, you present a situation that doesn't exist. If the government supplies a job guarantee to those willing to work, they aren't taking anything from anyone. Are cops stealing? Firemen? Our Marines? That situation simply is a non starter.


    And creating claims to goods is increase demand and sales for businesses! Why would you not want that!
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  5. #255
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    I did answer it, you present a situation that doesn't exist. If the government supplies a job guarantee to those willing to work, they aren't taking anything from anyone. Are cops stealing? Firemen? Our Marines? That situation simply is a non starter.


    And creating claims to goods is increase demand and sales for businesses! Why would you not want that!
    So you are actually going to take the position that a guy who prints up a stack of $20 bills and uses them to provide goods and services is NOT stealing, but is instead providing a public service?!

    Um, okay. Now I know into which category to place any future comments from you...

  6. #256
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    Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    I did answer it, you present a situation that doesn't exist. If the government supplies a job guarantee to those willing to work, they aren't taking anything from anyone. Are cops stealing? Firemen? Our Marines? That situation simply is a non starter.


    And creating claims to goods is increase demand and sales for businesses! Why would you not want that!
    You presume that the federal government actually has useful jobs for these people to do don't you? What if they don't?

    As to adding zeros to bank accounts - I'm terrible at economics but won't that simply devalue everyone else's bank accounts and isn't that effectively the same as increasing taxes?
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    You presume that the federal government actually has useful jobs for these people to do don't you? What if they don't?

    As to adding zeros to bank accounts - I'm terrible at economics but won't that simply devalue everyone else's bank accounts and isn't that effectively the same as increasing taxes?
    No, silly, buying goods with counterfeit money is actually a helpful service!

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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Glad to see most ppl vote no, America is still a bit American.

    In Sweden, I can guarantee that the answer would have been yes.

  9. #259
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    If one is working, they are not dependent, they are supplying themselves income by working.

    Every employee would then be dependent under your definition.
    Well there's no contract under yours. Only a parental-like obligation to citizens from government.

    The positive rights argument in general regards adult citizens as dependent children who deserve to be provided for, not as autonomous adults whose legally valid trade contracts may need to be enforced. If government is to provide us with our needs, making them positive rights, then we are depending on the external to meet our needs. It's like an adult child living at his parents' house. In some ways they're free adults, and in others they're still regarded children. I think that's typically an unhealthy way to live.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 04-27-13 at 02:59 PM.

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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So you are actually going to take the position that a guy who prints up a stack of $20 bills and uses them to provide goods and services is NOT stealing, but is instead providing a public service?!

    Um, okay. Now I know into which category to place any future comments from you...
    This is the most non-sensical response I have heard in a while. I never suggested some guy printing up $20 bills and using them to provide or good or service. Stop using a strawman and address what I am saying.
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