View Poll Results: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

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  • Yes

    22 14.67%
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    125 83.33%
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Thread: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  1. #161
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What about a society in which vast numbers of people are increasingly NOT needed in an economic system where a smaller and smaller number of people aided by technology can basically do the work for all the rest of us?

    When the Industrial Revolution happened, there was a lateral transference of labor from agriculture to Industry. heck, in the USA there was not even enough of that and we had to go overseas in an immigration binge just to man the machinery. The less than intelligent, the less than skilled, could find employment and live a decent and productive life as a member of our society with pride.

    For far too many today, that opportunity is gone as technology has made tens of millions of people simply not needed any more. And this will most likely only get worse over time.

    What do we do with those people who are simply no longer needed in the labor force? That is the true challenge we face as a society.
    I agree with you that this is a true challenge. If people are simply no longer needed in the labor force, then how can there possibly be any hope of them living productive decent lives with pride, as they once did? Technological regression? Because if people are doing things that aren't needed, but are taken care of by the system (whatever system that is), then they are nonetheless living a life of dependence. I have deep concerns about how well that works. I don't think it does. It's fundamentally incongruent with our industrious natures.

    I actually think some sort of regression is the only way to address this, but it would be very painful for all involved, and would have an economically protectionistic effect, which would probably spark wars. Big business loses its customers because they're all fending for themselves to a greater degree. The poorer classes, while more independent, have to adjust to a reversion to living standards similar to those of bygone eras after having been spoiled with modern comforts. It is extremely difficult. But there is no alternative that makes long term sense, economically, environmentally or psychologically.

  2. #162
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    The right to a job doesn't necessarially require the input of anyone else.

    I can be self employed.
    I wouldn't necessarily call it input or approval, but to be employed in more than the most abstract concept of the word requires the willingness of someone to buy your services. I wouldn't really call someone who has never done nor will ever do any mechanic work a mechanic no matter what trade school he graduated from. A mechanic with no customers for life is really just an unemployed guy calling himself a mechanic.

  3. #163
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I agree that we need to do both things. But we will not do both things or even one of them.

    I suspect while we may agree on those two broad points, we may disagree on the details of how to do them - and therein lies the rub and the reason why nothing will get done.
    I don't think agreement would be difficult at all. The sticking point would be; what do we do with those not up to the task as to educational attainment...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  4. #164
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Which provision is violated?
    its unlawful in our constitution to take from one and give to another.

    i cant be given a right to a house, food, water, because those things have a value, in order to give them to you, i have to take thing of value from someone else, maternal goods and services do not create themselves.

    and its unlawful to use force against a person to make that person serve another.

  5. #165
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Yes...if you want a job it should be provided. Whatever your talents be it a doctor or a ditch digger. If there's not enough jobs we have things we can find for you to do. It's a basic principle that if someone gives a best effort to work and be an employee they should have an employer.

    then who are you going to apply force to, to make the other person supply that job?

    in other words your going to violate the 13th amendment.

  6. #166
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Like I said, the true colors of the Libertarians are out!

    People must be goods, then, which also doesn't surprise me coming from a Libertarian. I sure wouldn't mind having a couple of movie stars and I'm sure lots and lots of other people want them, too.



    I just haven't enough time to get back to that thread. Don't feel left out, I have about four others on hold as well.

    I'm sorry you feel like you've "won" something --- and for that you get another ...

    my friend your attempts to make people look bad, or get your jollies visiting this forum, does not bother me, i have already witness you inability to understand the constitution, rights privileges.

  7. #167
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    First, you put in place policies that would encourage employers to set up shop here rather than transporting their products several thousand miles overseas. Next you might get rid of the PC education processes implemented over the past decades and train the population of students for the jobs that actually will be available...
    It would be a monumental task that no one has yet stepped forward to address. Sad that Ross Perot was correct!

    Good evening, AP.

  8. #168
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    Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    its unlawful in our constitution to take from one and give to another.

    i cant be given a right to a house, food, water, because those things have a value, in order to give them to you, i have to take thing of value from someone else, maternal goods and services do not create themselves.

    and its unlawful to use force against a person to make that person serve another.
    I'm asking WHERE in the Constitution it says that?
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  9. #169
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No one is arguing that people should not be able to work. What they're saying is that we can't force any one person to hire another.



    Only the employer and the employee do that matching. They are the only two parties who are trading one thing for another.




    No one is saying there is a benefit to high unemployment (except perhaps those who think high unemployment helps fend off inflation -- NAIRU). What they're saying is we can't force one person to hire another person. You are softly suggesting that some third party set the terms of individuals' contracts with one another. That is not good faith and fair dealing. That is a major infringement on people's right to trade with one another.

    Trade is integral to people's right to pursue happiness. That's HOW people pursue happiness. They turn inputs into more valuable outputs and trade with others. When government is mandating business relationships between employers and employees or between producers and consumers (as in PPACA, for example), that is an act of commercial enslavement of the people, to terms of contracts with which they do not necessarily agree.
    As Alabama Paul mentions yes government should be the employer of last resort.

    I don't agree with him that's it's a disaster.

    In normal situations there's not mass unemployment but in cases with mass unemployment....

    We have things that need to be done, borrowing is cheap, and labor is cheap.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  10. #170
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    I wouldn't necessarily call it input or approval, but to be employed in more than the most abstract concept of the word requires the willingness of someone to buy your services. I wouldn't really call someone who has never done nor will ever do any mechanic work a mechanic no matter what trade school he graduated from. A mechanic with no customers for life is really just an unemployed guy calling himself a mechanic.
    I agree completely.

    Part of the "job" of being self employed is atttracting and keeping customers.

    Everyone certainly has the right to at least that much.

    If I have the right to gain skills, the right to hang out a shingle and go to work for myself, and the right to attract customers and provide them with whatever service my skills qualify me to provide, then by logical necessity I have the right to a job.

    Again, I'm not arguing that anyone else has an obligation to provide me with a job, and neither do prospective customers have an obligation to employ me.

    I don't have a right to be successful at my job.

    But I have a right to one.
    Last edited by soot; 04-25-13 at 10:46 AM.

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