View Poll Results: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

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Thread: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  1. #151
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Oh. So you think everyone has the right to a job, but you're immune to providing it. Gotcha.

    I'll go shovel an inch of snow off the street outside for an hour. That'll be a thousand dollars. I hope they have direct deposit - I hate going to the bank.
    You're making arguments which have nothing to do with the idea of a true "right to work" bill. I guess that's what happens when a thread turns into a echo chamber.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You're making arguments which have nothing to do with the idea of a true "right to work" bill. I guess that's what happens when a thread turns into a echo chamber.
    No no, I'm really interested. I'd like to hear more about your plan to bloat the state to a level that gives them not only the chance, but the obligation to employ all who want employment.

    You know what they say about a government big enough to give you all you want, don't you?

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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    No no, I'm really interested. I'd like to hear more about your plan to bloat the state to a level that gives them not only the chance, but the obligation to employ all who want employment.

    You know what they say about a government big enough to give you all you want, don't you?
    Well I'm pretty interested in why you think individuals that can/want to work shouldn't have means of employment. Generally when you have people that want to work...and things that need to get done you kind of match the two together. I'm not sure what the benefit is of having millions of people that want to work unable to find work. Maybe I just don't fully understand the pain is good crowd.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well I'm pretty interested in why you think individuals that can/want to work shouldn't have means of employment. Generally when you have people that want to work...and things that need to get done you kind of match the two together. I'm not sure what the benefit is of having millions of people that want to work unable to find work. Maybe I just don't fully understand the pain is good crowd.
    Wanting to work and "can" work does not equate to being qualified or skilled, and it doesn't equate to an employer needing to hire someone.

    I'm not Marxist enough to contribute to a complete devaluation of labor because of social pressure.

    If someone can't get a job, maybe there's a very distinct reason for that...

  5. #155
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well I'm pretty interested in why you think individuals that can/want to work shouldn't have means of employment.
    No one is arguing that people should not be able to work. What they're saying is that we can't force any one person to hire another.

    Generally when you have people that want to work...and things that need to get done you kind of match the two together.
    Only the employer and the employee do that matching. They are the only two parties who are trading one thing for another.

    I'm not sure what the benefit is of having millions of people that want to work unable to find work. Maybe I just don't fully understand the pain is good crowd.

    No one is saying there is a benefit to high unemployment (except perhaps those who think high unemployment helps fend off inflation -- NAIRU). What they're saying is we can't force one person to hire another person. You are softly suggesting that some third party set the terms of individuals' contracts with one another. That is not good faith and fair dealing. That is a major infringement on people's right to trade with one another.

    Trade is integral to people's right to pursue happiness. That's HOW people pursue happiness. They turn inputs into more valuable outputs and trade with others. When government is mandating business relationships between employers and employees or between producers and consumers (as in PPACA, for example), that is an act of commercial enslavement of the people, to terms of contracts with which they do not necessarily agree.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 04-24-13 at 06:50 PM.

  6. #156
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No one is arguing that people should not be able to work. What they're saying is that we can't force any one person to hire another.



    Only the employer and the employee do that matching. They are the only two parties who are trading one thing for another.




    No one is saying there is a benefit. What they're saying is we can't force one person to hire another person. You are softly suggesting that some third party set the terms of individuals' contracts with one another. That is not good faith and fair dealing. That is a major infringement on people's right to trade with one another. Deal or no deal is up to the parties doing the actual trading.
    The underlying theme is that government should be the employer of last resort which would be a disaster...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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  7. #157
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    The underlying theme is that government should be the employer of last resort which would be a disaster...
    You're right, it would be a disaster, because theoretically that is the same as any other scheme to artificially boost employment. It is the American taxpayer that is the real employer of last resort in that scenario, and they aren't agreeing to there being a legitimate need to hire those people (just for the sake of hiring them). The People in general are still being forced to employ others who, under any other circumstances, they don't really need to employ. It's still forced employment, it just makes the compensation difficult to trace because it's not direct from one to another. That's the basis on which all big leftist government schemes rely -- all funding sources lead back to the general fund.

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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    The underlying theme is that government should be the employer of last resort which would be a disaster...
    What about a society in which vast numbers of people are increasingly NOT needed in an economic system where a smaller and smaller number of people aided by technology can basically do the work for all the rest of us?

    When the Industrial Revolution happened, there was a lateral transference of labor from agriculture to Industry. heck, in the USA there was not even enough of that and we had to go overseas in an immigration binge just to man the machinery. The less than intelligent, the less than skilled, could find employment and live a decent and productive life as a member of our society with pride.

    For far too many today, that opportunity is gone as technology has made tens of millions of people simply not needed any more. And this will most likely only get worse over time.

    What do we do with those people who are simply no longer needed in the labor force? That is the true challenge we face as a society.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What about a society in which vast numbers of people are increasingly NOT needed in an economic system where a smaller and smaller number of people aided by technology can basically do the work for all the rest of us?

    When the Industrial Revolution happened, there was a lateral transference of labor from agriculture to Industry. heck, in the USA there was not even enough of that and we had to go overseas in an immigration binge just to man the machinery. The less than intelligent, the less than skilled, could find employment and live a decent and productive life as a member of our society with pride.

    For far too many today, that opportunity is gone as technology has made tens of millions of people simply not needed any more. And this will most likely only get worse over time.

    What do we do with those people who are simply no longer needed in the labor force? That is the true challenge we face as a society.
    First, you put in place policies that would encourage employers to set up shop here rather than transporting their products several thousand miles overseas. Next you might get rid of the PC education processes implemented over the past decades and train the population of students for the jobs that actually will be available...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  10. #160
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    Re: Do You Have a Right to a Job?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    First, you put in place policies that would encourage employers to set up shop here rather than transporting their products several thousand miles overseas. Next you might get rid of the PC education processes implemented over the past decades and train the population of students for the jobs that actually will be available...
    I agree that we need to do both things. But we will not do both things or even one of them.

    I suspect while we may agree on those two broad points, we may disagree on the details of how to do them - and therein lies the rub and the reason why nothing will get done.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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