View Poll Results: How serious a problem is the divide between the wealthy and the rest of us?

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  • Not a problem at all.

    35 28.46%
  • A problem, but not a serious one.

    8 6.50%
  • A fairly serious problem.

    42 34.15%
  • It's not just a "problem." It's a catastrophe that is only getting worse.

    38 30.89%
  • This divide does not exist.

    0 0%
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Thread: The divide between the rich and the rest

  1. #341
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And taxes???
    What about them?

  2. #342
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    marywollstonecraft's Avatar
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Not sure to whom you're referring, but I believe you have a mistaken notion of libertarianism. They are the ONLY political philosophy that, across the board, opposes the initiation of interpersonal aggression. So, in fact, they are the exact opposite of your characterization.
    I know what libertarianism is, I am just commenting on how its self identifying adherents represent themselves on forums such as this
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  3. #343
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I expect my post to be overlooked because facts and truth often are
    No, your post is going to be largely overlooked because following its prescriptions would be insanely destructive.


    There are really only 2 solutions at this point:
    1) Refuse to pay back the debt.
    2) Demand that the debts be forgiven.
    This, for example. Do you know what happens if the US loses the ability to borrow?

  4. #344
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I wouldn't call it assault but, yes, I'm sure in most states they would arrest you for it. I think Republicans are more responsible for that one, though, and a few others you're not giving them credit for.
    in my nanny state country, growing 1 - 2 plants for personal use is decriminalized in some states, and attracts a fine, but no conviction. Growers are required to attend an education program however, so that they are aware of the risks associated with cannabis use.

    seems the heavy handed republicans in the US have contributed to quite a different environment, which I guess is one of the main reasons why the US has the highest incarceration rate globally.
    Last edited by marywollstonecraft; 04-28-13 at 04:02 AM.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  5. #345
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Which returns us to the point that libertarians oppose the initiation of violence against person and property. So a libertarian would agree with you that those who kill, maim, or steal from others should be stopped and/or punished.

    However, libertarians (unlike other political philosophies) hold agents of the state to the same standard. Thus, if an agent of the state were to accost a person for growing a plant, a libertarian would regard that as common assault. Essentially, there is one standard of human behavior, not one for the mundanes and then another for agents of the State.
    well I am not a libertarian, but I have been an active opponent of police brutality. The police officer's role is to uphold the law, not to break it.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  6. #346
    The Light of Truth
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    This, for example. Do you know what happens if the US loses the ability to borrow?
    Yes, it would have to start living within its means and conserving. The idea of constant "progress" and productive expansion would have to be tossed out in favor of more manageable resources; which is something the whole human species has to do anyway if we want to have a hope of getting out of the current era in one piece.

    The debt system is destroying this planet. Forget the economy for a second. The economy is a human invention, it ultimately does not matter. I'm talking about the real, physical, quantifiable annual bounty of this planet.

    We lived within this planet's renewable means until 1980, when we started over-withdrawing the resources, just like you if took out a line of credit. Except with the earth there is no bankruptcy option or do-over. If we permanently destroy our source of life, there is no other planet for us to go to. We can't restart the credit system. We just go extinct or at least suffer a drastic fallback to a previous standard of living from hundreds of years ago.

  7. #347
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    When it comes to the most basic of transactions, yes, they do. The government utilizes the coercive power of threatened force to ensure compliance, and maintains sovereignty over its' exercise.

    But if you don't believe me, please inform your government that you no longer intend to comply with their laws, and then proceed to cease doing so. You may be astonished at the results, as they will not include attempts to pretty-please you or convince you of the efficacy of following the rules; they will instead include physical force or the threat therein (depending on how far you decide to go before you comply).

    ....

    It enforces law with this:






    When you pass laws controlling people's actions, you are using violence to ensure that they obey your preferences. That you personally prefer to have others engage in that violence on your behalf does not excuse you from that act.
    I don't think you get it.

    Hobbes was writing in quite a different context from today, however you have his ideas about the state completely out of context anyway.

    you should read up on hobbes, and you should read up on the period he was writing in.

    I don't condone the use of violence, although I recognize that there may be some extreme cases which pose a serious threat which the government has to have the power to protect its citizens from. but these are relatively rare.

    although no doubt more common in the US.

    quite possibly, the fact that in the US individuals who subscribe to extremist anti government conspiracy propaganda have access to arsenals of military style weapons makes it more likely that your government needs to have access to the use of force.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  8. #348
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    The police officer's role is to uphold the law, not to break it.
    On this, we agree, at least. Well said.

  9. #349
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    On this, we agree, at least. Well said.
    I suspect that regardless of political stripe or religious belief there would be a lot we would agree on.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  10. #350
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    I suspect that regardless of political stripe or religious belief there would be a lot we would agree on.
    You are probably right.

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