View Poll Results: How serious a problem is the divide between the wealthy and the rest of us?

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  • Not a problem at all.

    35 28.46%
  • A problem, but not a serious one.

    8 6.50%
  • A fairly serious problem.

    42 34.15%
  • It's not just a "problem." It's a catastrophe that is only getting worse.

    38 30.89%
  • This divide does not exist.

    0 0%
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Thread: The divide between the rich and the rest

  1. #321
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Another person who believes government can exist without taxes? That is what you're talking about, isn't it, taxes?


    As for controlling other people's behavior, that's called "civilization". We don't allow people to kill or maim each other. We don't allow people steal from each other. We don't allow a lot of things so that order is kept.
    As I have already pointed out, libertarians oppose the initiation of violence against person and property. So a libertarian would agree with you that those who kill, maim, or steal from others should be stopped and/or punished.

    However, libertarians (unlike other political philosophies) hold agents of the state to the same standard. Thus, if an agent of the state were to accost a person for growing a plant, a libertarian would regard that as common assault. Essentially, there is one standard of human behavior, not one for the mundanes and then another for agents of the State.

  2. #322
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    Rand Paul expressed the view that a restaurant owner should be able to deny a black man service simply because he is black. Paul wouldn't eat there (he claims), but the owner should have that right. Is that a view shared by most Libertarians or is Paul in the minority among Libertarians?
    I don't know for sure but I believe that yes most libertarians would agree with Rand Paul on this issue.

    Want another scenario that involves trade and race? Let's say I have two auto mechanics in my town, one Hispanic, one white. I'm white, so with which mechanic should I be required to do business when it comes to fixing my car?

    The point of this exercise is mostly rhetorical, and it shows that it doesn't really make sense to have the federal government meddling in people's bargaining with one another to make sure they don't have racist motives. I think there are some situations in the world that can be addressed by the people and/or smaller levels of government than federal, and that was specifically the level of government Rand Paul was referencing when explaining the nature of his objection to the CRA, so don't take him out of context.

    With that said, I believe there have been some major upsides to the CRA in spite of the fact the federal government got involved in it all. Ideally we would have crushed the idiot-racism of the last couple centuries organically, without federal legislation, but if the CRA helped in that regard, fine. Libertarians have much bigger fish to fry than their purely technical objections to the CRA.

  3. #323
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    I would have agreed up until that bolded part. Those that address the administrative aspect are just as much 'at the top' as the P, the VP and the rest, if they know their job and do it well. Without them, no business functions well. Just about every sole prop will tell you running the business and keeping the numbers straight are two very separate jobs, both with equal value.
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
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  4. #324
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    As I have already pointed out, libertarians oppose the initiation of violence against person and property. So a libertarian would agree with you that those who kill, maim, or steal from others should be stopped and/or punished.

    However, libertarians (unlike other political philosophies) hold agents of the state to the same standard. Thus, if an agent of the state were to accost a person for growing a plant, a libertarian would regard that as common assault. Essentially, there is one standard of human behavior, not one for the mundanes and then another for agents of the State.
    People are accosted for gardening? Wow - where do you live 'cause I don't want to ever go there, not even to visit.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #325
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Sorry, I've seen people try to do jobs they just can't handle. In fact, I've taught many how to do a skilled labor job and some that simply could not learn it. It's not just a matter of skill set, it's a matter of talent, too, in most cases. I've seen dumb-ass programmers with degrees and I've seen good programmers with little formal training. Again, it's often a matter of talent, not just learning.

    Of course, we're always left with the simple fact that even if everyone got degrees in good jobs someone would still have to sweep the floors, organize files, and enter numbers into a computer. There simply isn't room at the top for everyone regardless of how skilled or talented they are.

    There are an innumerable jobs in this world and nearly all of them are held by someone of average intelligence.

    Saying that these people are incapable of finding work outside of unskilled labor is completely liberal bull****.

    As I asked before:

    How many laborers went out and got degrees in computer science?
    It's very difficult to find work when you're unqualified for anything and unwilling to become qualified.

  6. #326
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
    Your statement sounded like the administrative functions of a business were at the level of the floor sweeper, it was something anybody could do. I completely disagree.

    It takes a lot of knowledge, either gained via a degree and then a whole lot of on the job experience, or a whole lot of years just on the job, to administratively run a viable business. Be it large, medium, small company or sole prop.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

  7. #327
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    There are an innumerable jobs in this world and nearly all of them are held by someone of average intelligence.

    Saying that these people are incapable of finding work outside of unskilled labor is completely liberal bull****.

    As I asked before:



    It's very difficult to find work when you're unqualified for anything and unwilling to become qualified.
    There are NOT innumerable jobs.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    And you ignore the simple fact that not everybody CAN do what jobs there are, no matter how hard they might try.

    Everybody can't do everything.

    And just because what they CAN do isn't considered profitable enough doesn't mean they should jus7 starve to death.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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  8. #328
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Your statement sounded like the administrative functions of a business were at the level of the floor sweeper, it was something anybody could do. I completely disagree.

    It takes a lot of knowledge, either gained via a degree and then a whole lot of on the job experience, or a whole lot of years just on the job, to administratively run a viable business. Be it large, medium, small company or sole prop.
    I think he was talking about data entry jobs, not administrative.staff.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #329
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    People are accosted for gardening? Wow - where do you live 'cause I don't want to ever go there, not even to visit.
    Try growing Cannabis sativa in your garden and see how long it is before you are assaulted by agents of the State.

  10. #330
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    There are NOT innumerable jobs.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    And you ignore the simple fact that not everybody CAN do what jobs there are, no matter how hard they might try.

    Everybody can't do everything.

    And just because what they CAN do isn't considered profitable enough doesn't mean they should jus7 starve to death.
    Innumerable means exactly what I know it means, which I guess means you have no idea what it means.

    What I don't know is what "everybody can't do everything" means. I know I certainly never said anything of the sort although I'm getting the distinct impression that you can't do anything.

    Out of curiosity, do you have a career of any kind?
    Last edited by Dapper Andy; 04-27-13 at 07:18 PM.

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