View Poll Results: How serious a problem is the divide between the wealthy and the rest of us?

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  • Not a problem at all.

    35 28.46%
  • A problem, but not a serious one.

    8 6.50%
  • A fairly serious problem.

    42 34.15%
  • It's not just a "problem." It's a catastrophe that is only getting worse.

    38 30.89%
  • This divide does not exist.

    0 0%
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Thread: The divide between the rich and the rest

  1. #311
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    have somebody beat you over the head repeatedly, and see if you can still say you are not opposed.

    It's all perspective, or lack thereof, I guess.
    The libertarian opposes the INITIATION of violence not self-defense.

  2. #312
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Well then you don't know much about libertarianism. One of their core principles (if not THE core principle) is that it is wrong to INITIATE violence against others or their property.

    You might want to read this: Non-aggression principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The libertarians actually see non-libertarians as self-centered and selfish, since those sorts are willing to initiate violence (or outsource this job) against others in order to have their own selfish ends satisfied.
    interesting.

    considering that so many self identified libertarians sound like candidates for anger management classes, and express opinions that would not be out of place from the most self centred adolescent.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  3. #313
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    interesting.

    considering that so many self identified libertarians sound like candidates for anger management classes, and express opinions that would not be out of place from the most self centred adolescent.
    Not sure to whom you're referring, but I believe you have a mistaken notion of libertarianism. They are the ONLY political philosophy that, across the board, opposes the initiation of interpersonal aggression. So, in fact, they are the exact opposite of your characterization.

  4. #314
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    The middle ground for a so-called middle of the roader.
    Number four choice ....for the extremist
    Number five choice....for the man whose head is in the sand
    Number one.....for the concrete head...
    In all honesty, I do not think that the problem is that bad...I think that things have always been this way..
    Proof ?
    none, a gut feeling...
    But, no doubt, things can be better....

  5. #315
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    Sure, if they have the right skill set.

    How many labors went out and got degrees in computer science?
    Sorry, I've seen people try to do jobs they just can't handle. In fact, I've taught many how to do a skilled labor job and some that simply could not learn it. It's not just a matter of skill set, it's a matter of talent, too, in most cases. I've seen dumb-ass programmers with degrees and I've seen good programmers with little formal training. Again, it's often a matter of talent, not just learning.

    Of course, we're always left with the simple fact that even if everyone got degrees in good jobs someone would still have to sweep the floors, organize files, and enter numbers into a computer. There simply isn't room at the top for everyone regardless of how skilled or talented they are.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
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  6. #316
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    why is it right whingers are so anti education and anti fact?

    why are they so prone to conspiracy theories?
    That's the only question here. The other two follow naturally given a lack of education.
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  7. #317
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I made no statements regarding economics. I was commenting on those who feel justified in controlling other people's behavior and taking their property.
    Another person who believes government can exist without taxes? That is what you're talking about, isn't it, taxes?


    As for controlling other people's behavior, that's called "civilization". We don't allow people to kill or maim each other. We don't allow people steal from each other. We don't allow a lot of things so that order is kept.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-27-13 at 02:26 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #318
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Another person who believes government can exist without taxes? That is what you're talking about, isn't it, taxes?

    As for controlling other people's behavior, that's called "civilization". We don't allow people to kill or maim each other. We don't allow people steal from each other. We don't allow a lot of things so that order is kept.
    Libertarians advocate minarchism, not anarchism.

    The important thing for a so-called relatively free society is that government do only what is minimally necessary and with just cause in order to disallow killing, stealing, enslaving, etc. Minimally necessary would mean it enforces contracts that are brought to the legal system because of breach, not manhandle everyone's freedom to deal with one another in the first place. It would mean incarceration in response to crime, not to preempt it. It means you demonstrate that a suspension or termination of liberty or deprivation of property be shown to a court and put through due process, case-by-case, to be justified.

    The federal government, all three branches (four if you count the shadow branch of the central bank), has done many, many things in recent history that fly in the face of those principles.

  9. #319
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Libertarians advocate minarchism, not anarchism.

    The important thing for a so-called relatively free society is that government do only what is minimally necessary and with just cause in order to disallow killing, stealing, enslaving, etc. Minimally necessary would mean it enforces contracts that are brought to the legal system because of breach, not manhandle everyone's freedom to deal with one another in the first place. It would mean incarceration in response to crime, not to preempt it. It means you demonstrate that a suspension or termination of liberty or deprivation of property be shown to a court and put through due process, case-by-case, to be justified.

    The federal government, all three branches (four if you count the shadow branch of the central bank), has done many, many things in recent history that fly in the face of those principles.
    Rand Paul expressed the view that a restaurant owner should be able to deny a black man service simply because he is black. Paul wouldn't eat there (he claims), but the owner should have that right. Is that a view shared by most Libertarians or is Paul in the minority among Libertarians?

  10. #320
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Sorry, I've seen people try to do jobs they just can't handle. In fact, I've taught many how to do a skilled labor job and some that simply could not learn it. It's not just a matter of skill set, it's a matter of talent, too, in most cases. I've seen dumb-ass programmers with degrees and I've seen good programmers with little formal training. Again, it's often a matter of talent, not just learning.

    Of course, we're always left with the simple fact that even if everyone got degrees in good jobs someone would still have to sweep the floors, organize files, and enter numbers into a computer. There simply isn't room at the top for everyone regardless of how skilled or talented they are.
    I would have agreed up until that bolded part. Those that address the administrative aspect are just as much 'at the top' as the P, the VP and the rest, if they know their job and do it well. Without them, no business functions well. Just about every sole prop will tell you running the business and keeping the numbers straight are two very separate jobs, both with equal value.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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