View Poll Results: How serious a problem is the divide between the wealthy and the rest of us?

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  • Not a problem at all.

    35 28.46%
  • A problem, but not a serious one.

    8 6.50%
  • A fairly serious problem.

    42 34.15%
  • It's not just a "problem." It's a catastrophe that is only getting worse.

    38 30.89%
  • This divide does not exist.

    0 0%
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Thread: The divide between the rich and the rest

  1. #301
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Quite the contrary. For example, I would wager that between the two of you, you are far more likely to use violence than he is to force your opinion of the proper amount I should be giving to charity, to healthcare for the elderly, etc.
    I don't have an opinion on the proper amount YOU should be giving to charity etc ....

    And you'd be wrong about the likelihood of me using violence as well.... I have never seen that as an effective means to resolve conflict.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  2. #302
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    I don't have an opinion on the proper amount YOU should be giving to charity etc ....
    Really? So you do not, for example, think that I should be forced to take the money I earn and give it to people in the form of food stamps, TANF checks, or Medicare payouts?

    And you'd be wrong about the likelihood of me using violence as well.... I have never seen that as an effective means to resolve conflict.
    Ah. So you, too, are a libertarian? Why don't you have it as your lean?

  3. #303
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    the important phrase is that bolded above ... in your opinion there is somehow a connection with interpersonal violence, but I don't see that.

    This probably indicates that you are far more likely than I to use violence in trying to resolve differences.
    No, cpwill had it right. I was referring to the nanny-staters in my original post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Or perhaps he has to much invested in his own ability to control his own person and property. The hand wringing ninnies, as he calls them, inevitably want control over our person (making us do things) and our property (taking things from us).
    The nanny staters are those who endorse the use of interpersonal violence in order to control their fellow man and in order to take his property.

    For example, let's say that there is some guy who plants some seeds in his garden, grows the plants, and then consumes the final product. Oh, and the plants are Cannibis sativa.

    There are those who would use interpersonal violence to punish his for these acts, despite the fact that his acts harmed no other person.

    Of course I abhor all interpersonal violence, but in this case I was specifically talking about the interpersonal violence initiated by agents of the State.

  4. #304
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Quite the contrary. For example, I would wager that between the two of you, you are far more likely to use violence than he is to force your opinion of the proper amount I should be giving to charity, to healthcare for the elderly, etc.
    You would be right.

  5. #305
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Really? So you do not, for example, think that I should be forced to take the money I earn and give it to people in the form of food stamps, TANF checks, or Medicare payouts?



    Ah. So you, too, are a libertarian? Why don't you have it as your lean?
    I think you should have the same range of choices as others do.

    No, I am not a libertarian ... after coming to forums like this I thought that was an Americanism for a self centred and selfish individual.

    In general, such people are not necessarily opposed to violence.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  6. #306
    free market communist
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    libertarian ... after coming to forums like this I thought that was an Americanism for a self centred and selfish individual.

    .
    AKA -- teenager who just found their new religion at Lewrockwell dot com.
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  7. #307
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    I think you should have the same range of choices as others do.
    That is not a way of saying much. Are you in favor of using the coercive power of the state to force me to give my money to others under the threat of state violence or not?

    No, I am not a libertarian ... after coming to forums like this I thought that was an Americanism for a self centred and selfish individual.
    No, libertarianism, by and large (there are a few exceptions), is the radical notion that perhaps you are best suited to make decisions about your own life, and government should therefore not interpose it's preferences upon you.

    In general, such people are not necessarily opposed to violence.
    in general people are not opposed to violence. However, Hobbes was right - the single greatest repository of violence - of terror - in a country is the government itself. Those who argue for an expanded role for governance are arguing for an expansion of this use of violence against their fellow citizens.

  8. #308
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    I think you should have the same range of choices as others do.

    No, I am not a libertarian ... after coming to forums like this I thought that was an Americanism for a self centred and selfish individual.

    In general, such people are not necessarily opposed to violence.
    Well then you don't know much about libertarianism. One of their core principles (if not THE core principle) is that it is wrong to INITIATE violence against others or their property.

    You might want to read this: Non-aggression principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The libertarians actually see non-libertarians as self-centered and selfish, since those sorts are willing to initiate violence (or outsource this job) against others in order to have their own selfish ends satisfied.

  9. #309
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is not a way of saying much. Are you in favor of using the coercive power of the state to force me to give my money to others under the threat of state violence or not?



    No, libertarianism, by and large (there are a few exceptions), is the radical notion that perhaps you are best suited to make decisions about your own life, and government should therefore not interpose it's preferences upon you.



    in general people are not opposed to violence. However, Hobbes was right - the single greatest repository of violence - of terror - in a country is the government itself. Those who argue for an expanded role for governance are arguing for an expansion of this use of violence against their fellow citizens.
    Of course, "governments" in modern democracies operate in the same way as they did in the 17th century, during the English civil war.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  10. #310
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    in general people are not opposed to violence. .
    have somebody beat you over the head repeatedly, and see if you can still say you are not opposed.

    It's all perspective, or lack thereof, I guess.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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