View Poll Results: How serious a problem is the divide between the wealthy and the rest of us?

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  • Not a problem at all.

    35 28.46%
  • A problem, but not a serious one.

    8 6.50%
  • A fairly serious problem.

    42 34.15%
  • It's not just a "problem." It's a catastrophe that is only getting worse.

    38 30.89%
  • This divide does not exist.

    0 0%
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Thread: The divide between the rich and the rest

  1. #101
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Oh good. I was worried that you meant some people might act so as to harm their bodies or property.
    Glad you have been reassured.
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  2. #102
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The serfs were not living in a society where they have mass opportunity to seek their way in life.
    I am not saying that what we have is just as bad. In fact, I think we have generally progressed in the right direction as a civilization. But, there are still a lot of things that need to be fixed. Before we blame the impoverished perhaps we should question the system itself.


    Yeah... graduated taxation is a real privilege.
    A graduated income tax is just smoke to make it appear the State is addressing the poverty issue. In order to truly tackle the rich/poor gap we must get to the root of the problem. Benjamin Tucker identified 4 monopolies that the elite benefit from through the State: Land Monopoly, Money Monopoly, Tariff Monopoly, and the Patent Monopoly. They are as much a factor today as they were when he wrote about them 100 years ago.
    http://www.gonzotimes.com/2011/06/be...ur-monopolies/


    Individuals have control, have the power, even in this socialist society.
    Which is much like saying a goldfish in a fishbowl has control/power over itself. Sure, it can swim, eat, etc. But nevertheless it is restricted.


    When government penalizes wealth
    I am opposed to penalizing the fruits of labor. Any legitimately earned wealth should go untaxed.

    and pours on regulation the poor have a more difficult time with upward mobility.
    You're right there. Over-regulation leads to fewer opportunities for the common man to get a job, start a business, and acquire wealth. This actually supports my point that we are not simply free to do whatever we want.

    When government doesn't try to level things out, when it allows people to be as wealthy as they like there are more jobs and that fuller employment raises wages.
    When government removes the barriers/privileges I mentioned, then we can see a wealthier society in general.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  3. #103
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Define social justice.


    the unequal distribution of income

    and so working hard like animals and being treated like animals



    .......................





    What is Social Justice?

    In Australia, we have a pretty good understanding of what justice is. You know, justice is that thing that involves courts and lawyers, which makes sure that the bad guys get punished, the good guys get compensated, and that everyone gets a fair go...

    But what happens when society itself is the 'bad guy'? What happens to justice when our spending habits keep people enslaved? When the law or national policy victimises the poor and marginalised? When community attitudes stop people from receiving the support and assistance they desperately need?

    The answer? When society is the perpetrator of injustice, unfairness is tolerated, accepted, even regarded as 'necessary'.

    And social injustice won't end until someone stands up for those who don't have the ability to stand up for themselves.

    That's really what we're on about when we talk about social justice - it's the pursuit of justice purely for someone else's sake. It's the pursuit of justice even if we don't get any benefit from the outcome. It's the pursuit of justice even if we ourselves need to make sacrifices in order to ensure everyone receives the same fair go.

    What is Social Justice? » salvos.org.au/more/
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  4. #104
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Jealousy is the only real issue. A spotlight shined upon it in the last election; some were against Mitt simply for being rich.
    Nonsense. It's "jealousy" in the way that the owner of stolen property is "jealous" of the thief who took it. The wealth divide is caused by corruption, and the plutocrats on top are thieves, nothing more. They do not deserve their wealth because they only have it due to the corrupt relationship the rich have with government.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 04-23-13 at 04:11 PM.

  5. #105
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    It's not the wealth gap per se, it's the legislation behind it.
    Well, ok, a fair point. But that's kind of a chicken or the egg question. What is the problem, the corrupt government or the plutocrats who corrupted it?

  6. #106
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    I can't believe out of $16 trillion dollars in debt they couldn't find a measly $1 million for me.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  7. #107
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    the unequal distribution of income

    and so working hard like animals and being treated like animals



    .......................





    What is Social Justice?

    In Australia, we have a pretty good understanding of what justice is. You know, justice is that thing that involves courts and lawyers, which makes sure that the bad guys get punished, the good guys get compensated, and that everyone gets a fair go...

    But what happens when society itself is the 'bad guy'? What happens to justice when our spending habits keep people enslaved? When the law or national policy victimises the poor and marginalised? When community attitudes stop people from receiving the support and assistance they desperately need?

    The answer? When society is the perpetrator of injustice, unfairness is tolerated, accepted, even regarded as 'necessary'.

    And social injustice won't end until someone stands up for those who don't have the ability to stand up for themselves.

    That's really what we're on about when we talk about social justice - it's the pursuit of justice purely for someone else's sake. It's the pursuit of justice even if we don't get any benefit from the outcome. It's the pursuit of justice even if we ourselves need to make sacrifices in order to ensure everyone receives the same fair go.

    What is Social Justice? » salvos.org.au/more/
    If income is distributed based upon the need for a worker, the workers skill, the ease of replacing said worker and the amount such a worker should earn in a competitive labor market, then those who work like animals and are treated like animals pretty much have chosen that life style for themselves, not society. At least here in America, there are still lots of opportunity for people to better themselves and earn more. The only reason for so many people to be qualified only to scrub toilets is because they haven't taken the opportunities available and done something with those opportunities. There are some, the functional mentally disabled who might never reach above that level even if they tried, but we also have aide to such people and they like having a job.

    Perhaps you could give us some example of this "social injustice" of unequal distribution of income. If someone wants to earn CEO pay, then they do what is necessary to become a CEO, otherwise, tough donuts. If someone doesn't like their pay, then they can go elsewhere or make themselves more valuable. They don't show they are willing to work hard and improve themselves, then why should others give a damned about them.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  8. #108
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Nonsense. It's "jealous" in the way that the owns of stolen property is "jealous" of the thief who took it. The wealth divide is caused by corruption, and the plutocrats on top are thieves, nothing more. They do not deserve their wealth because they only have it due to the corrupt relationship the rich have with government.
    Well said. I will support any policy that reduces the amount that the government OR PRIVILEGED PARTIES may initiate (NOTICE THE WORD INITIATE) aggression (where aggression is defined as acting to uninvitedly change the physical integrity of any person's body or property).

  9. #109
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    If income is distributed based upon the need for a worker, the workers skill, the ease of replacing said worker and the amount such a worker should earn in a competitive labor market, then those who work like animals and are treated like animals pretty much have chosen that life style for themselves, not society. At least here in America, there are still lots of opportunity for people to better themselves and earn more. The only reason for so many people to be qualified only to scrub toilets is because they haven't taken the opportunities available and done something with those opportunities. There are some, the functional mentally disabled who might never reach above that level even if they tried, but we also have aide to such people and they like having a job.

    Perhaps you could give us some example of this "social injustice"
    of unequal distribution of income. If someone wants to earn CEO pay, then they do what is necessary to become a CEO, otherwise, tough donuts. If someone doesn't like their pay, then they can go elsewhere or make themselves more valuable. They don't show they are willing to work hard and improve themselves, then why should others give a damned about them.
    l think we are speaking different languages
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  10. #110
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    Re: The divide between the rich and the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Define real socialism.

    Socialism derives from Marx and he defined it as the process/method of moving from capitalism to communism. Some now wish to remain at socialism or part socialism without moving to communism. While an authoritarian government is not a requirement of socialism, any government pursuing socialistic agendas must be, in part, authoritarian in nature, whether they are democratically elected or are outright dictators. Socialism is not a form of government, but can be actions taken by the government acting in the "best interests" of "society" by forcing compliance with social and economic desires of the socialist. Any government that pursues elimination of class or reduction in class differences, whether based upon social or economic measures, is socialistic in nature. Since they are socialistic, they are socialist.

    Some pursue protecting classes based also based upon different measures. Class will always exist, but a persons class, imo, is based upon the individuals own merits. Any government that does not protect class based upon artificial structures or does not attempt to end class, but instead bases it upon individual merit/achievement can be said to be a Meritocracy. Something that like true Communism, does not currently exist.

    I fully support Meritocracy, not unlimited Democracy, not corporatism, not socialism, not dictatorships nor any form of government that hinders the individuals right to achieve or stops people from experiencing the negative affects of their own choices.
    even if these social classes will exist , their basic needs should be met by the governments

    again it comes to social justice................
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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