View Poll Results: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

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47. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's fine, and warranted

    7 14.89%
  • It's BS, and shouldn't ever be done

    32 68.09%
  • I'm somewhere in the middle on this one

    6 12.77%
  • Other (please explain)

    2 4.26%
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Thread: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

  1. #41
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    The second anyone starts to whittle away at the basic rights of any and all people, regardless of how horrendous the crimes, is a second we all start to pay the price.

    The same laws and rights that any natural born American citizen would expect to be followed, should they ever be arrested for anything, should apply to this individual.

  2. #42
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    There was absolutely no logical reason to not have read him his rights, nor is there any excuse for failing to have done so.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #43
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    The second anyone starts to whittle away at the basic rights of any and all people, regardless of how horrendous the crimes, is a second we all start to pay the price.

    The same laws and rights that any natural born American citizen would expect to be followed, should they ever be arrested for anything, should apply to this individual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There was absolutely no logical reason to not have read him his rights, nor is there any excuse for failing to have done so.
    The only reason to say this is because of a poor understanding of the right at issue. Miranda is not some pinnacle of civil liberties, and all these sanctimonious reactions are just examples of unthinking totemism. The exceptions to Miranda exist for a reason, and it is because there can be circumstances where Miranda warnings are unnecessary without infringing on civil liberties. Miranda is vastly misunderstood, and falsely lionized, as many of the reactions in this thread amply demonstration.

  4. #44
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Having just recently (within the last year) learned a heck of a lot about Miranda rights with my CJ classes, I really don't know why people are so up in arms about this. All it really means is that anything they do get from him might not be able to be used against him in a trial. The guy is still in critical condition from what I've seen. Not exactly coherent enough at the moment to legally give Miranda to. Prior to this, it would all depend on what questions were asked of him. It could end up that whatever he answered to those questions won't be able to be used in court, but that is basically it. Nothing more. And considering it sounds like they were just asking him two things, about others working with him and more bombs, that certainly could be seen as a safety of the public issue. If he didn't say anyone else was working with him, then it isn't like that really matters (had he indicated someone, it could have been/could be an issue for charging them). His rights weren't truly being denied to him. He still did/does have "the right to remain silent, the right to a lawyer, including one appointed to him if he can't afford one". No one is forcing him to talk or keeping lawyers away from him, not from what we know.

    Once he recovers (if he does), they will read him his rights before they officially start asking him questions (if they want any hope of using his testimony against him).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #45
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The only reason to say this is because of a poor understanding of the right at issue. Miranda is not some pinnacle of civil liberties, and all these sanctimonious reactions are just examples of unthinking totemism. The exceptions to Miranda exist for a reason, and it is because there can be circumstances where Miranda warnings are unnecessary without infringing on civil liberties. Miranda is vastly misunderstood, and falsely lionized, as many of the reactions in this thread amply demonstration.
    The exceptions to Miranda exist for the same reason many heinous judicial precedents exist -- because in the last 20 years, the Federal bench has become more and more permissive when it comes to whittling the rights of the individual in exchange for the "greater good."
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #46
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    The exceptions to Miranda exist for the same reason many heinous judicial precedents exist -- because in the last 20 years, the Federal bench has become more and more permissive when it comes to whittling the rights of the individual in exchange for the "greater good."
    Which happens all the time. My instructors described this as a pendulum. Every generation or so it swings back and forth between the rights of the individual and the safety of the public. It ends up proving hard to find a good balance between the two so we end up with lots of precedent.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #47
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    The exceptions to Miranda exist for the same reason many heinous judicial precedents exist -- because in the last 20 years, the Federal bench has become more and more permissive when it comes to whittling the rights of the individual in exchange for the "greater good."
    Look, this isn't Law & Order: SVU. Forget all the Miranda myths you've ever learned from TV. Miranda has a very limited role as a rule of evidence, it is going to make almost no difference here is this guy never gets read his rights. All the police are doing is giving the suspect's lawyer a little bit more negotiating power, and I'm sure they have a very good reason for doing so. If you really understand what is at stake here, you can see this is not a civil liberties issue of any significance whatsoever.

  8. #48
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Look, this isn't Law & Order: SVU. Forget all the Miranda myths you've ever learned from TV. Miranda has a very limited role as a rule of evidence, it is going to make almost no difference here is this guy never gets read his rights. All the police are doing is giving the suspect's lawyer a little bit more negotiating power, and I'm sure they have a very good reason for doing so. If you really understand what is at stake here, you can see this is not a civil liberties issue of any significance whatsoever.
    If it makes almost no difference, then it should cost the cops almost nothing to read the man his rights.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #49
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Which happens all the time. My instructors described this as a pendulum. Every generation or so it swings back and forth between the rights of the individual and the safety of the public. It ends up proving hard to find a good balance between the two so we end up with lots of precedent.
    Sure it's a pendulum -- one that keeps swinging further and further towards the statist end of things with every stroke. Decade after decade for the last 50 years, the government gets bigger and more powerful, and our civil rights are steadily eclipsed. There is no backward swing, not in the sum total of things.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #50
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    Re: No Miranda reading: Good or bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    If it makes almost no difference, then it should cost the cops almost nothing to read the man his rights.
    They want to be able to question him about any other explosives out there (public safety exception) and a terrorist does not have the same rights as a normal criminal so Miranda really is irrelevant.

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