View Poll Results: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

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Thread: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

  1. #191
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonslayer View Post
    I wonder if y0u do. Believe it or not, baptized babies grow up, have lives and go to church, read and learn. just as you might have done.
    I dont belive in baptizing kids before they're 10-12 because when done early you're not even giving the kid a chance to learn what those things are and it's basically forcing a religion unto them.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Skip

    So you all of a sudden decided to post something after almost 2 years? ODD

    Skip where does your link show how many are pro-life? Since you know everyone on here…….and you have a good idea of what they post and what their political, religious leanings are……name ten people who POST REGULARLY in the debates who are pro-life and against abortion . I am not talking about the posters who say they are pro-choice but against abortion.
    The people who are anti abortion period.....

    “What I believe in my heart through prayer is what I believe. No amount of persecution is going to change my mind and coerce me to forsake my religion.’

    So your one of those Christians who calls himself a Christian but doesn’t believe and stand on scriptures? Who is persecuting you? All I did was comment that you would one day come face to face with God and will probably have to explain your position on abortion.


    “Are you a vegetarian? Let's say that you are. YOU'RE KILLING GOD'S TOMATOES! Let's say that you're not. YOU'RE KILLING GOD'S CHICKENS! A fetus is a creation of God but that, in itself, does not place it on the same level as a human, now, does it? A fetus is a life form capable of becoming a human - in other (scientific) words, subhuman.”

    I knew it, I knew it…….another who thinks animals are equal to humans. Another person who calls himself Christian and doesn’t know scripture.




    “Well, then I guess I will right now. I'm coming out with a controversial statement: I don't believe in butchering innocent babies inside a womb.”

    BUT YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO ABORT IF SHE WANTS.
    Didn’t you say this?

    Lachean said, “What utter bull****. You couldn't honestly believe that most of the people here actually condone the use of abortion as a method of birth control. Thats your straw man for the pro-choice position that almost NOBODY actually believes, just like your misuse of "pro-abortion".’

    Most people here that have been participating in these abortion debates are pro-choice abortion for whatever reason and what ever gestational are the unborn is at.

  3. #193
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by doughgirl View Post
    Skip

    So you all of a sudden decided to post something after almost 2 years? ODD

    Perhaps he simply does not wish to repeat the same thing...over....and over....and over...and over....and....become like you.


    Skip where does your link show how many are pro-life? Since you know everyone on here…….and you have a good idea of what they post and what their political, religious leanings are……name ten people who POST REGULARLY in the debates who are pro-life and against abortion . I am not talking about the posters who say they are pro-choice but against abortion.
    The people who are anti abortion period.....

    Most people of intellect Doughy, understand the complexity of this issue, and are a bit less....uh...Rabid.




    So your one of those Christians who calls himself a Christian but doesn’t believe and stand on scriptures? Who is persecuting you? All I did was comment that you would one day come face to face with God and will probably have to explain your position on abortion.

    Judge Much?



    I knew it, I knew it…….another who thinks animals are equal to humans. Another person who calls himself Christian and doesn’t know scripture.

    And what about those of us that know the many scriptures far more completely than yourself.....yet refuse to be called Christian becuase that might place us in a category that includes you?



    BUT YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO ABORT IF SHE WANTS.
    Didn’t you say this?




    Most people here that have been participating in these abortion debates are pro-choice abortion for whatever reason and what ever gestational are the unborn is at.
    Actually....I only know of ONE that holds this position....and actually I am relatively sure even he would deny going so far.

  4. #194
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    "And what about those of us that know the many scriptures far more completely than yourself.....yet refuse to be called Christian becuase that might place us in a category that includes you?"

    What a joke "the many" ........you know scriptures? i remember i think we talked about the Law......you had no clue then and still probably dont.

    I'm sure you know the ones you toss out because they have to do with sin?

  5. #195
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So a guy writing poems to god is law?? Explain this again?


    Okay....

    So, your going to generalize me as a heathen.... May I ask why? Where have I stated that I am an athiest? Where have I stated that I am a pagan/wiccan??? What exactly do you know about me that would qualify me as a "heathen"????? Explain yourself.

    Yes, it is a good thing to convince people NOT to have abortions. But to claim that whose who don't feel that the government should limit the rights of the people to choose cannot call themselves christian is NOT acceptable. Convincing through education is good, more and more laws that we already have enough of is bad. Now, this fails to explain how those who violate the 10 commandments (the laws of the jewish and christian beliefs that are supposed to be held in the highest reguard) should be allowed to consider themselves christian, while those who have the opinion that there should not be a law governing access to abortions cannot consider themselves christian. Explain yourself!

    No, you seem to have the thread wrong. I was asking you how you can say that those who break the 10 commandments on a regular basis can consider themselves christians, but those who have the opinion that there should not be laws governing access to abortion cannot. I believe the actual act of committing a SIN is worse than the opinion that the sin should not be governed by manmade law. I threw no "charge against Christians" in here. I was using an example. It seems you have me misjudged to some sort of anti-religion person and thus have taken the defensive on everything I have said, labeling me as a religion bashing fool. You are sadly mistaken.

    Ive only heard such a lame argument from you so far.....
    David was appointed King BY God, so what David has to say is very important. But I must make a small correction: David writ like 70-something Psalms, not all of them. But the one I put on there was written by David.

    "Explain [myself]"? Sure... but first, are you Christian or not? I was being broad with the word "heathen". Are you offended by the word? Why? I mean, if the glove fits......
    All I know about you is what you've said about Christian beliefs and the knocking down of King David, so I just assumed. If my assumption was wrong, then correct me.

    I could care less if there was a law banning abortions. The only law I want is parental notification for abortions. A child needs parental notification to go on a school field trip, so why not for abortions? Both can be equally dangerous. Of this reminds me of an anecdote. My friend from North Dakota told me a story about when he went on a school field trip to the Buffalo Plains to see wild buffalo. He was dared by another student to jump the fence w/out being noticed just to say that he did it. Well, all went well until a male buffalo started running right at him. The zookeeper then had to jump the fence and rescue my friend. He could've been run over and smashed to death. Ditto (almost) for a minor going to have an abortion. She could die or become maimed in the process. I hope you get the idea.
    I don't remember calling for a law on this particular thread, by the way...

    Ah, the thread's title is "Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro-Abortion?" I answered the question. Can you? Certainly. But should you? Well, that's up to the Christian who believes in abortion rights. My faith is swayed everyday, just like any other Christian, but I TRY MY HARDEST to center myself again and to walk the reccomended path that Jesus has laid out for me. I don't want to sin, but sometimes I fail, just like EVERYONE ELSE. I'm not perfect, nor would I ever claim to be. Only God is perfect.
    I believe abortion is murder. I believe life begins shortly after the sperm meets the egg.

    Lame argument? I'm sorry you feel that way. See, now the "old me" would've gotten all teed off and called you a slur of names. I'll admit that that's what I wanted to do at first, but that would have gotten me no where.

  6. #196
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So, in other words, you are saying that you cherrypick what to believe in and adhere to. How do you know which rule is OK to break and which is not?

    Guess it's time for one of CaptainCourtesy's infamous definition questions:

    What is the definition of a true Christian?
    What's so cherrypickiness about what I said? I know my love of battle is wrong, but I don't actually go out and do unneccessary battle..... sheesh!

  7. #197
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey1499 View Post
    David was appointed King BY God, so what David has to say is very important. But I must make a small correction: David writ like 70-something Psalms, not all of them. But the one I put on there was written by David.
    Yes, but at least the Jews are intelligent enough to recognize the difference. A poem is a poem, a law is a law. A poem written by a king doesn't make it some sort of a law. And regardless, someone writing to god sayin, "YOU KNEW ME BEFORE I WAS BORN" isn't any form of a "law", its an opinion.

    "Explain [myself]"? Sure... but first, are you Christian or not? I was being broad with the word "heathen". Are you offended by the word? Why? I mean, if the glove fits......
    Irrelevant....
    All I know about you is what you've said about Christian beliefs and the knocking down of King David, so I just assumed. If my assumption was wrong, then correct me.
    The only "Christian beliefs" that I have spoken about around here are the "fundamentalist" beliefs. As only the major beliefs stay the same from one denomination to the other. And, I also implore you to explain how I "knocked down" King David. As I only stated that a poem isn't a law. Thats all.

    I could care less if there was a law banning abortions.
    Than this makes you pro-choice.
    The only law I want is parental notification for abortions.
    And I don't disagree with this either.

    I don't remember calling for a law on this particular thread, by the way...
    Well, by being pro-life you are in the position of demanding there be a law banning abortion. The "moral" issue of whether or not you believe abortion to be moral or not is not the debate. This is debate politics, not debate morals. The debate is about the political aspect, I.E. Should it be legal. I don't necessarily believe that abortions should be used for birth control, nor do I think people who continue to have abortions should not be required to get on birth control. However, I do not think that it is the government's business making a law on this issue, and thus it should be up to the people who "choose" the correct action based upon thier own morals/belief system/life situation.

    Ah, the thread's title is "Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro-Abortion?" I answered the question. Can you? Certainly.
    We agree on something else.
    But should you? Well, that's up to the Christian who believes in abortion rights.
    Rights..... Women should have the right to choose. If that were to remain, and a christian could personally believe Abortion to be immoral, yet still believe that people in the free nation of the US should have the right to make that choice for themself, how would they be any less Christian? Is imposing your religious moral beliefs on everyone else in a free nation in the form of laws required to be a Christian? If so I have never heard of it this way.
    I believe abortion is murder. I believe life begins shortly after the sperm meets the egg.
    I understand. And for me, I don't believe that a human is a human until it is a human. If that makes any sense. Yes, it is a life when the sperm meets the egg, and yes, maybe it does have "human dna", but I don't believe that "DNA" is what makes something human. And if you are angry because "a life" is being ended, then I want you to eat nothing but dirt for the rest of your life, because any meat you eat has had its life ended, any vegetation you eat has also had its life ended, and I hope you don't spray any anti-bacterial cleaners on your countertop, cause your killing millions of lives. But I digress from my point. I don't believe ending just any "life" is murder. Its ending the life of an individual human.

    However, I still disagree with using abortion as birth control, but I don't think it should be legislated. Because the rest of the country may not agree with my beliefs, and it should not be the job of the government to regulate morals.

    Lame argument? I'm sorry you feel that way. See, now the "old me" would've gotten all teed off and called you a slur of names. I'll admit that that's what I wanted to do at first, but that would have gotten me no where.
    I already forgot what this was all about.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  8. #198
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yes, but at least the Jews are intelligent enough to recognize the difference. A poem is a poem, a law is a law. A poem written by a king doesn't make it some sort of a law. And regardless, someone writing to god sayin, "YOU KNEW ME BEFORE I WAS BORN" isn't any form of a "law", its an opinion.
    But a wise opinion, in my own opinion. King David was a very wise man, and his son Solomon was even wiser; except for when it came to his choice of women... I believe it to be wise to follow David's wise opinion that God knows you before you are "born" into the world. I believe it to be wise for all Christians and Jews to believe the same. But as for non-believers, it's up to them to decide what they believe; does life begin before or after birth?


    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Irrelevant....
    The only "Christian beliefs" that I have spoken about around here are the "fundamentalist" beliefs. As only the major beliefs stay the same from one denomination to the other. And, I also implore you to explain how I "knocked down" King David. As I only stated that a poem isn't a law. Thats all.
    Fundies are dangerous to any religion or ideaology. Look at Islam for proof of that.

    I must've taken what you wrote out of context or I misunderstood you. If you say that you didn't "knock down David" then I believe you. I refuse to call you a liar on this issue without proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Than this makes you pro-choice.
    Eh, I still think that I'm pro-life... but such a title carries little weight. I mean I eat meat; causing the end of a life. But anywho, the only titles that mean anything to me are that I'm Christian and I'm American. I could even go as far as saying that I'm a Conservative-Republican; but such a title carries little weight too, cuz even I sometimes leak from the "conservative mold". As I'm sure you sometimes leak from the "democrat mold". No mold fits us all, to each his own I guess... perhaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Well, by being pro-life you are in the position of demanding there be a law banning abortion. The "moral" issue of whether or not you believe abortion to be moral or not is not the debate. This is debate politics, not debate morals. The debate is about the political aspect, I.E. Should it be legal. I don't necessarily believe that abortions should be used for birth control, nor do I think people who continue to have abortions should not be required to get on birth control. However, I do not think that it is the government's business making a law on this issue, and thus it should be up to the people who "choose" the correct action based upon thier own morals/belief system/life situation.
    You are right, the gov't should have NO right to make a law on this issue, either for or against abortion. Less gov't control would probably be appropriate in this situation. BUT, Jewish, Catholic and Protestant leaders (not politicians, but like the Pope and so on...) should "outlaw" abortion amongst it's followers. And of course I base this back on David's wise opinion. Now, if you take the Bible literally, as I do, then you know that David was in communications with God. Maybe God told David that He knew David before he was "born into the world". It is said that God "sculpts" us in the womb or whatever. (I hope I'm explaining this clear enough).

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    We agree on something else.
    Rights..... Women should have the right to choose. If that were to remain, and a christian could personally believe Abortion to be immoral, yet still believe that people in the free nation of the US should have the right to make that choice for themself, how would they be any less Christian? Is imposing your religious moral beliefs on everyone else in a free nation in the form of laws required to be a Christian? If so I have never heard of it this way.
    I understand. And for me, I don't believe that a human is a human until it is a human. If that makes any sense. Yes, it is a life when the sperm meets the egg, and yes, maybe it does have "human dna", but I don't believe that "DNA" is what makes something human. And if you are angry because "a life" is being ended, then I want you to eat nothing but dirt for the rest of your life, because any meat you eat has had its life ended, any vegetation you eat has also had its life ended, and I hope you don't spray any anti-bacterial cleaners on your countertop, cause your killing millions of lives. But I digress from my point. I don't believe ending just any "life" is murder. Its ending the life of an individual human.
    I'll try to sum up the first part of this quote the best I can. I believe in being a Christian before being an American. That my morals come before my (political) ideaology. If I'm in a situation where my ideaology conflicts with my morals, then I try to make a decision based on what think is morally acceptable, not ideaologically/socially acceptable. I believe other Christians and even Jews should believe this too. Non-believers are free to think what they want, mostly because it doesn't concern me because I don't want to force something on them that they don't want, unless they ask for it, of course.

    It makes some sense... I guess. But once again, about the human-inside-a-human deal, I go back to David's wise opinion. Once the egg is fertilized I believe it to be human; especially once the heart and brain beigin to develope. As the fetus progresses thru it's different stages it becomes more human in appearance, but the DNA are still the "building blocks", our DNA is completely different from a dog. Can't forensic scientists use DNA tests to tell dog blood from human blood or whatever the scenario? But the Fetus' DNA is still a little bit different from the Mother's DNA, is it not?

    When a cow is killed for food, that is fulfilling it's purpose. To feed humans, or dogs, or cats (pet food products...). It probably sounds cruel, but any Christian or Jew would agree that was cow's original purpose was food. Milk at first, but then Man was allowed to make hamburgers out of em' later on. Hehehe. But to 'murder' a human (unless in self-defense) is wrong. I'm against killing infants/fetuses, not against killing germs on the counter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    However, I still disagree with using abortion as birth control, but I don't think it should be legislated. Because the rest of the country may not agree with my beliefs, and it should not be the job of the government to regulate morals.
    No, it should be up to Judeo-Christian leaders to legislate morals amongst it's believers. Well, to not maybe 'force' believers like the Catholic Church did a long time ago, but "strict reccommendations" I guess would be suitable... I dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I already forgot what this was all about.

    Well, see. Here's your problem. If you were a republican like me, instead of a democrat, you wouldn't have a lapse in memory. Because elephants NEVER forget...

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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Definition of Genocide :

    Definition of Murder :

    A murder is the illegal killing of another. Perpetrators are usually subjected to either lengthy imprisonment or the death penalty in countries which allow capital punishment. Legalized killing, such as genocide, can also constitute murder if it violates international law.

    As long as abortion is legal. It's not murder either. :|
    This is completely wrong. The killing of another is murder whether it's illegal or not. The way you are saying it I could kill someone but it wouldn't be murder unless i was caught and punished. The whole point of the discussion is to see if abortion is right or wrong, if it should be legal or not. Because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. It just mean you can do it without punishment.

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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    How the hell did this thing end up revived?
    It's from 2006!
    You'd think it would've been archived by now.

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