View Poll Results: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

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  • Yes

    110 83.33%
  • No

    22 16.67%
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Thread: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

  1. #111
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Yes they are but I expect the only people that are voting no are our friends from the left who are offended by Christians or have disdain for them......
    There could possibly be a grain of truth in what you say, NP.

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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Utah View Post
    Genocide? Why can't people just get past their agendas?



    Liberalism at its best. Attack all moral fabric and all stable foundations and scream, literally scream, at anybody that disagrees with them, calling them racists, sexists and bigots etc. The old Liberal Politically Correct and Moraly Bankrupt Two Step!
    Only person in this thread screaming at anyone who disagrees with them is the one who started the thread. He'd pound anyone who called him liberal...
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  3. #113
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey1499 View Post
    I know that is Psalm 139 David talks about how he was formed in the womb, almost sounds like he was thankful that he wasn't aborted. But this Psalm does prove, for Christians and Jews, that we are formed in the womb and completely different from our mothers.
    Psalms don't really prove anything. They are writings and poetry by men who are inspired by thier religion, but are not prophets or messiahs. God isn't speaking through them.

    So Christians can be for abortion, but then they are hypocrites. Yes, I break many rules, such as my lust for war and battle, but to murder a child is something I could not do, I'd kill myself before slaughtering an innocent child.
    Yet, it should be forgivable to be an adultering drunk who bad mouths his parents and steals from his neighbor, while "worshiping" the cross instead of god, works every saturday from sun up to sun down all the while swearing out in gods name angrily and telling lies to cover up his acts. Are you telling me this man should be forgiven while one who makes a bad decision to abort an unborn child cannot?

    Also, do realize that unless they are looney ( I don't want to say NOBODY has..), NOBODY walks around holding a sign screaming "ABORT YOUR BABIES!..... KILL THEM NOW!!!" that would be "Pro-Abortion". The difference between that and "Pro-Choice" is that you believe the option should be open, even if you don't believe its the best choice. So, should a christian not be forgiving to someone who had aborted a child and asks Jesus for forgiveness? You have PASTORS and PREACHERS and PRIESTS who commit sins more expressly outlawed by god (IN THE BIBLE) who are allowed to continue to preach and speak to congregants and are forgiven, for sins that are a part of the 10 commandments, yet abortion.. OH NO!

    Talk about hypocrits.

    Of course the Atheists would say that Abraham was going to kill his own son. Well, let me explain this. God wasn't really going to let Abe sacrifice his son, God was just testing his faith and loyalty.
    Thats the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard of. Ive never heard anyone use that argument, its quite obvious to all who have read that God was testing Abram.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Psalms don't really prove anything. They are writings and poetry by men who are inspired by thier religion, but are not prophets or messiahs. God isn't speaking through them.

    Yet, it should be forgivable to be an adultering drunk who bad mouths his parents and steals from his neighbor, while "worshiping" the cross instead of god, works every saturday from sun up to sun down all the while swearing out in gods name angrily and telling lies to cover up his acts. Are you telling me this man should be forgiven while one who makes a bad decision to abort an unborn child cannot?

    Also, do realize that unless they are looney ( I don't want to say NOBODY has..), NOBODY walks around holding a sign screaming "ABORT YOUR BABIES!..... KILL THEM NOW!!!" that would be "Pro-Abortion". The difference between that and "Pro-Choice" is that you believe the option should be open, even if you don't believe its the best choice. So, should a christian not be forgiving to someone who had aborted a child and asks Jesus for forgiveness? You have PASTORS and PREACHERS and PRIESTS who commit sins more expressly outlawed by god (IN THE BIBLE) who are allowed to continue to preach and speak to congregants and are forgiven, for sins that are a part of the 10 commandments, yet abortion.. OH NO!

    Talk about hypocrits.


    Thats the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard of. Ive never heard anyone use that argument, its quite obvious to all who have read that God was testing Abram.

    Hmmm..... where to begin. At the beginning I suppose!

    Psalms was written by King David. So Psalms is credible to Judeo-Christian Law. David was chosen by God to rule over the Israelites.

    I'm not the one who decides who should be forgivin or not. That's God's job. I don't think I've ever claimed to be the master forgiver.

    You heathens can do what ever the hell you want. I'll let you all lead yourselves to your own ruin. I could care less. I'm looking out for Jews and Christians only. They are my concern.

    Yes, we sin, all Jews and Christians do. All Humans for that matter, sin. But if I can convince Jews and Christians to stop the needless slaughtewr of children in the womb, then I believe that'll make things better. But YOU can do what you want, it doesn't concern me.

    I was also discussing the topic of this thread "abortion". But you seem to have thrown every charge against Christians in here, which was unwarranted. This thread isn't about heretic priests who fondle children. It's about Christians who needlessly murder their own children.

    And I've heard other Atheists use the Abraham story as a means of dividing Christians. I was just preparing myself incase that lame argument was brought up...

  5. #115
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
    A metaphor? I prefer to walk softly when parsing scripture,I take "leaping for joy" literally and this fetus may well have been an exception. With God all things are possible!
    If this fetus was an exception, then it undermines your entire point because no broad conclusion about abortion could be drawn from it.

    And if it wasn't an exception, then there was nothing special about that fetus and it didn't LITERALLY leap for joy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins
    Obviously in the example above a [crime] has been committed proving that a Christian or believer in the God of Abraham must [not] cause her fruit to depart from her and if this is done [punishment] will follow! Thus a practicing Christian who aborts a Child/Fetus/Fruit fails God's will. They may call themselves a Christian but they do not practice what is written if they are Pro Abortion or Pro Choice!
    I think you missed the point. The life of the fetus is assigned a lower value than the life of an adult human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins
    Ah but [equivalency] is not the subject of this debate!
    Of course it is. The entire reasoning behind the anti-choice argument is that a fetus is the equivalent of a person, and abortion is tantamount to murder. If you don't believe that, then opposing abortion doesn't make any sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins
    Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    "If a man hurts a pregnant women and causes a miscarriage he is only fined"

    Why fine the man if he as done [nothing] wrong? If he [has] done something wrong,then he is in violation of God's law according to the scriptures no? Again he may call himself a "Christian" but in reality he does not follow the law!
    Who said he didn't do anything wrong? Of course someone should be punished if they cause a woman to have a miscarriage or force an abortion. And I'm as pro-choice as they come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins
    Nor is atomic warfare or stemcell research mentioned!
    But unlike those things, abortion actually existed when the Old Testament was written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins
    I appreciate your commentary and respect your point of view. I think both of us wish there was a more precise explanation within the scriptures but this is why Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Today when a "Christian" contemplates abortion I am confident that the "Spirit" tries to reason with them. As a Christian, I [believe] abortion to be against the will of God.
    Your god took the time to clarify his stance on eating shellfish, but not on abortion. Which leads me to believe it wasn't that big of a concern for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins
    The examples you and I gave in our posts do show his "opposition" and the consequences.
    Actually the example I gave shows exactly the opposite. The example you gave doesn't really show much at all in regards to abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins
    That is enough for me for to continuing to oppose his will by having or supporting abortion rights,calls into question our claim as "adherents" to Christianity.

    Pax Christi <><
    Do you follow (or even try to follow) every single law in the Bible? Some parts of the Bible are routinely ignored by Christians. For example, the prohibition against eating shellfish, the prohibition against working on the Sabbath, the prohibition against touching the skin of a pig, the prohibition against wearing clothes made from two or more garments, etc. Does it "call into question [your] claim as an adherent to Christianity" if you don't follow those things? Then why is abortion any different? If anything, those things are MORE important than abortion, as they are clearly prohibited whereas abortion is not.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    So ngdawg, I should have written "Idiocy at its best" instead Point taken.

  7. #117
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Well I see some of our friends on the left have skewed the poll by voting yes 4 or 5 times.............to bad............
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  8. #118
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey1499 View Post
    Psalms was written by King David. So Psalms is credible to Judeo-Christian Law. David was chosen by God to rule over the Israelites.
    So a guy writing poems to god is law?? Explain this again?


    I'm not the one who decides who should be forgivin or not. That's God's job. I don't think I've ever claimed to be the master forgiver.
    Okay....

    You heathens can do what ever the hell you want. I'll let you all lead yourselves to your own ruin. I could care less. I'm looking out for Jews and Christians only. They are my concern.
    So, your going to generalize me as a heathen.... May I ask why? Where have I stated that I am an athiest? Where have I stated that I am a pagan/wiccan??? What exactly do you know about me that would qualify me as a "heathen"????? Explain yourself.

    Yes, we sin, all Jews and Christians do. All Humans for that matter, sin. But if I can convince Jews and Christians to stop the needless slaughtewr of children in the womb, then I believe that'll make things better. But YOU can do what you want, it doesn't concern me.
    Yes, it is a good thing to convince people NOT to have abortions. But to claim that whose who don't feel that the government should limit the rights of the people to choose cannot call themselves christian is NOT acceptable. Convincing through education is good, more and more laws that we already have enough of is bad. Now, this fails to explain how those who violate the 10 commandments (the laws of the jewish and christian beliefs that are supposed to be held in the highest reguard) should be allowed to consider themselves christian, while those who have the opinion that there should not be a law governing access to abortions cannot consider themselves christian. Explain yourself!

    I was also discussing the topic of this thread "abortion". But you seem to have thrown every charge against Christians in here, which was unwarranted. This thread isn't about heretic priests who fondle children. It's about Christians who needlessly murder their own children.
    No, you seem to have the thread wrong. I was asking you how you can say that those who break the 10 commandments on a regular basis can consider themselves christians, but those who have the opinion that there should not be laws governing access to abortion cannot. I believe the actual act of committing a SIN is worse than the opinion that the sin should not be governed by manmade law. I threw no "charge against Christians" in here. I was using an example. It seems you have me misjudged to some sort of anti-religion person and thus have taken the defensive on everything I have said, labeling me as a religion bashing fool. You are sadly mistaken.

    And I've heard other Atheists use the Abraham story as a means of dividing Christians. I was just preparing myself incase that lame argument was brought up...
    Ive only heard such a lame argument from you so far.....
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  9. #119
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Well I see some of our friends on the left have skewed the poll by voting yes 4 or 5 times.............to bad............
    NP - I voted once. Please tell me how I can possibly go back and vote 4 more times!

    Are you once again claiming to see results that you can't see?

    Where is your evidence?

    Or is it that you just don't like the results?

  10. #120
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by galenrox View Post
    I don't think that supporting abortion rights has anything inherently to do with right or left. For example, by any objective standard, I am MUCH more conservative than you are, and yet I support abortion rights and you don't. And the reason I support abortion rights is because I am more conservative than you, I think abortion is too complex for the government to deal with it properly.

    Anywho, of course you can be a true christian and support abortion rights. It's a ridiculous question. There is a moral argument for and against abortion rights, both of which are valid depending on which assumptions you choose to make, and so someone who makes different assumption than you will draw an entirely different conclusions, even if in every other way their beliefs on what makes something moral or immoral are the same.

    For example, do you believe I am a true Christian? Have I ever given you reason to believe that my stated beliefs are not genuine? I support abortion rights. The official stance of the Episocapalian church is supportive of abortion rights. It's a ridiculous question.
    I am MUCH more conservative than you are, and yet I support abortion rights and you don't.
    I doubt that very seriously but whatever if it make you feel better so be it.........

    I know of no true Conservative who is pro abortion/choice.........Now Rudy G. like you calls himself a Conservative and he may be a Fiscal Conservative but there is no way in hell he is a social Conservative.............He like you is pro abortion/choice.......

    Yeah and the Episcopal Church also has a gay bishop, and the majority of the dioceases are breaking away from that liberal sect..........

    I think you will find that the vast majority of religions are pro life and anti abortion/choice, of course there are exceptions to every rule.........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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