View Poll Results: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

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    110 83.33%
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    22 16.67%
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Thread: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

  1. #101
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You have to understand I am fighting the good fight against Liberalism in about 4 threads at one time.........
    OK, I've been here about 6 months now, have seen NavyPride post this comment many times, and still have no idea what it means! Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? Thanks.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #102
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    OK, I've been here about 6 months now, have seen NavyPride post this comment many times, and still have no idea what it means! Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? Thanks.
    Liberals are out there pretending to be shiny happy people whilst all the while promoting some heinous ****e like abortion or sending Israel to obivian. NAvy Pride is the resident ARchie Bunker so it's not alway clear what he's trying to say but his intentions are good and he dons't like those who appaer pro jihaddy and support mams killing thier kin. That's why no matter what he says I'll love Navy!

  3. #103
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    "Child" in the context above essentially means "offspring." The Arimatheans didn't have another word for it, and the translations are not perfect as it is. The part about "leaping for joy" is obviously a metaphor, since fetuses don't react emotionally to external events.
    A metaphor? I prefer to walk softly when parsing scripture,I take "leaping for joy" literally and this fetus may well have been an exception. With God all things are possible!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The only Bible passage that even comes close to addressing abortion is this primitive law:

    "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth."--Ex. 21:22-25
    Obviously in the example above a [crime] has been committed proving that a Christian or believer in the God of Abraham must [not] cause her fruit to depart from her and if this is done [punishment] will follow! Thus a practicing Christian who aborts a Child/Fetus/Fruit fails God's will. They may call themselves a Christian but they do not practice what is written if they are Pro Abortion or Pro Choice!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    In other words, in ancient Israel, if a man hurts a pregnant woman and causes a miscarriage, he is only fined. But if he kills the woman, he is killed. In other words, a fetus clearly was NOT the equivalent to a human being in this society.
    Ah but [equivalency] is not the subject of this debate!

    Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    "If a man hurts a pregnant women and causes a miscarriage he is only fined"

    Why fine the man if he as done [nothing] wrong? If he [has] done something wrong,then he is in violation of God's law according to the scriptures no? Again he may call himself a "Christian" but in reality he does not follow the law!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I realize that not all Christians accept the laws of the Old Testament, which is fine. But that's the only thing that even relates to abortion in the Bible. The New Testament is even less sympathetic to the anti-choice crowd. Abortion is not mentioned or implied a single time.
    Nor is atomic warfare or stemcell research mentioned! I appreciate your commentary and respect your point of view. I think both of us wish there was a more precise explanation within the scriptures but this is why Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Today when a "Christian" contemplates abortion I am confident that the "Spirit" tries to reason with them. As a Christian, I [believe] abortion to be against the will of God. The examples you and I gave in our posts do show his "opposition" and the consequences. That is enough for me for to continuing to oppose his will by having or supporting abortion rights,calls into question our claim as "adherents" to Christianity.

    Pax Christi <><
    "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. " - George Orwell

  4. #104
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Liberals are out there pretending to be shiny happy people whilst all the while promoting some heinous ****e like abortion or sending Israel to obivian. NAvy Pride is the resident ARchie Bunker so it's not alway clear what he's trying to say but his intentions are good and he dons't like those who appaer pro jihaddy and support mams killing thier kin. That's why no matter what he says I'll love Navy!


    Are....

    Are.........
    Are you......
    Are YOU ON DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?! ?!!
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Are....

    Are.........
    Are you......
    Are YOU ON DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?! ?!!
    I think she said she was a little drunk on another thread. Has to be the reason for her post.
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    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #106
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
    A metaphor? I prefer to walk softly when parsing scripture,I take "leaping for joy" literally and this fetus may well have been an exception. With God all things are possible!

    It may well have been an exception...it may not have been. it comes down to YOUR interpretation against someone elses, and unless God talks to you alone the issue is unresolved and becomes one of personal faith. But, as you take the scriptures literally, lets continue:




    Obviously in the example above a [crime] has been committed proving that a Christian or believer in the God of Abraham must [not] cause her fruit to depart from her and if this is done [punishment] will follow! Thus a practicing Christian who aborts a Child/Fetus/Fruit fails God's will. They may call themselves a Christian but they do not practice what is written if they are Pro Abortion or Pro Choice!

    I dont suppose you ever wear cloth of more than one material...do you? And God Forbid (pun intended)...you enjoy shellfish....or do any of the below listed biblical infractions.....you abomination, You:




    Ah but [equivalency] is not the subject of this debate!

    Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    "If a man hurts a pregnant women and causes a miscarriage he is only fined"

    Why fine the man if he as done [nothing] wrong? If he [has] done something wrong,then he is in violation of God's law according to the scriptures no? Again he may call himself a "Christian" but in reality he does not follow the law!




    Nor is atomic warfare or stemcell research mentioned! I appreciate your commentary and respect your point of view. I think both of us wish there was a more precise explanation within the scriptures but this is why Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Today when a "Christian" contemplates abortion I am confident that the "Spirit" tries to reason with them. As a Christian, I [believe] abortion to be against the will of God. The examples you and I gave in our posts do show his "opposition" and the consequences. That is enough for me for to continuing to oppose his will by having or supporting abortion rights,calls into question our claim as "adherents" to Christianity.

    Pax Christi <><
    Deuteronomy
    Chapter 22

    1
    "You shall not see your kinsman's ox or sheep driven astray without showing concern about it; see to it that it is returned to your kinsman.
    2
    If this kinsman does not live near you, or you do not know who he may be, take it to your own place and keep it with you until he claims it; then give it back to him.
    3
    You shall do the same with his ***, or his garment, or anything else which your kinsman loses and you happen to find; you may not be unconcerned about them.
    4
    You shall not see your kinsman's *** or ox foundering on the road without showing concern about it; see to it that you help him lift it up.
    5
    "A woman shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's dress; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.
    6
    "If, while walking along, you chance upon a bird's nest with young birds or eggs in it, in any tree or on the ground, and the mother bird is sitting on them, you shall not take away the mother bird along with her brood;
    7
    you shall let her go, although you may take her brood away. It is thus that you shall have prosperity and a long life.
    8
    "When you build a new house, put a parapet around the roof; otherwise, if someone falls off, you will bring bloodguilt upon your house.
    9
    1 "You shall not sow your vineyard with two different kinds of seed; if you do, its produce shall become forfeit, both the crop you have sown and the yield of the vineyard.
    10
    You shall not plow with an ox and an *** harnessed together.
    11
    You shall not wear cloth of two different kinds of thread, wool and linen, woven together.
    12
    2 "You shall put twisted cords on the four corners of the cloak that you wrap around you.
    13
    "If a man, after marrying a woman and having relations with her, comes to dislike her,
    14
    and makes monstrous charges against her and defames her by saying, 'I married this woman, but when I first had relations with her I did not find her a virgin,'
    15
    3 the father and mother of the girl shall take the evidence of her virginity and bring it to the elders at the city gate.
    16
    There the father of the girl shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man in marriage, but he has come to dislike her,
    17
    and now brings monstrous charges against her, saying: I did not find your daughter a virgin. But here is the evidence of my daughter's virginity!' And they shall spread out the cloth before the elders of the city.
    18
    4 Then these city elders shall take the man and chastise him,
    19
    besides fining him one hundred silver shekels, which they shall give to the girl's father, because the man defamed a virgin in Israel. Moreover, she shall remain his wife, and he may not divorce her as long as he lives.
    20
    "But if this charge is true, and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found,
    21
    they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father's house and there her townsmen shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.


    One of my personal favorites

    22
    "If a man is discovered having relations with a woman who is married to another, both the man and the woman with whom he has had relations shall die. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
    23
    5 "If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her,
    24
    you shall bring them both out to the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
    25
    "If, however, it is in the open fields that a man comes upon such a betrothed maiden, seizes her and has relations with her, the man alone shall die.
    26
    You shall do nothing to the maiden, since she is not guilty of a capital offense. This case is like that of a man who rises up against his neighbor and murders him:
    27
    it was in the open fields that he came upon her, and though the betrothed maiden may have cried out for help, there was no one to come to her aid.
    28
    "If a man comes upon a maiden that is not betrothed, takes her and has relations with her, and their deed is discovered,
    29
    the man who had relations with her shall pay the girl's father fifty silver shekels and take her as his wife, because he has deflowered her. Moreover, he may not divorce her as long as he lives.

    Table of Contents Previous Chapter Next Chapter
    Footnotes

    1 [9] Become forfeit: to the sanctuary; cf Lev 19:19; Joshua 6:19.

    2 [12] Twisted cords: referred to as "tassels" on "violet cords" in Numbers 15:38. See note there.

    3 [15] The evidence of her virginity: the bridal garment or sheet stained with a little blood from the first nuptial relations.

    4 [18] Chastise him: flog him, as prescribed in Deut 25:1-3.

    5 [23] A maiden who is betrothed: a girl who is married but not yet brought to her husband's home and whose marriage is therefore still unconsummated.


    I am so going to He!!....Woe is me

  7. #107
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I speak for Christians..........We believe life begins at conception.....It is taught in our doctrine................
    Based on the overwhelming poll results I think it is clear that Navy Pride's suggestion that he "speaks for Christians" is utterly untrue...again!

    He seems to not be able to even understand the people who have he thinks support his opinion....This is a fine example of who Navy Pride is....

  8. #108
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Why is everyone always trying to destroy Christianity with some sort of social reformation dilemma?

    Is it not true that all religions change to suit the needs of the progressive society? Is it not true that alternate paths to salvation is constanty being tested amongst men? Is it not true that Christians accept the roles of Darwinism, but still are capable of holding to their faiths of creation? Are Christians supposed to lead a perfect life or simply try to maintain a perfect life in a world that encourages anything but?

    Simply because a Christian believes in a woman's right to choose, doesn't mean that he is not a Christian. A Christian should be allowed to believe in what he/she wishes without the persecution or the sanctimonious non-Christian who scoffs at his/her prayers. The truth is that all people of any religion chooses their sins and they live by them. The truly dangerous are the ones that will lash out on society to preserve an outdated damaging tradition or to create a new one. The problem that I see on this thread is that many wish in vain to produce the typical Christian as that retard that hops around the Church, passes around snakes, goes to the pulpit to be "healed," or believes in rediculous notions that God "pre-dated" the dinosuar bones.

    Of course, these same individuals will jump all over others who attempt to paint all of Islam as that terrorist for the sake of political-correctness. You see, saying otherwise might get your head cut off. However, bashing the Christian is always safe. And what about Islam's response towards America? Do they not scream about how American culture is invading their religion? Do many Americans scream about the same thing as they strive to find American blame for all Middle Eastern affairs? It's a shame that these same individuals will pull out every stop to attack Christianity.

    But let's flip this around. What about those fanatics of Christianity that claim others aren't Christian enough, because they believe in something they do not. Is the Bible not full of contradictions left to the confusion of the reader and the interpretation of the preacher? Was it not Christian to believe that demons possessed women in Winston Salem and were murdered to rid them of their infliction? Was it not Christian to kill a Catholic or a Protestant over the paths to salvation? How many Christians died in Spain because Phillip II felt the need to act as God's self appointed executioner and slaughter Catholics? How many Christians died because Thomas Muntzer babtized Germany in Protestant blood to preserve a sense of "true faith" in Catholicism? And just how Christian is it to chain "God" to a patch of dirt making him little more than a brutal land lord? People of "true faith" will kill for their "Gods," but they will slaughter for their religion's totems. These savages also believe that they personify "true faith."

    History has seen each and every major religion define and redefine its faith. History has seen each and every major religion enforce those definitions upon each other and upon people of different faiths. Today, we are told that Christians aren't really Christians if they believe in a women's right to choose. We are also told that Christians aren't real Christians because they lack perfection. It's simple. In Christianity, we believe that God made man-whether it be form dirt or through evolution-and gave him free will. This means that women have free will and no man (who is not equal to God) has a right to take that away. If abortion is to be questioned by "God," then "God" will deal with the individual when the time comes.

    Who the hell are any of you to question anyone's faith or how they define it? Religious terrorists are made from such arrogant perches.
    Last edited by MSgt; 12-06-06 at 03:58 PM.

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  9. #109
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Genocide? Why can't people just get past their agendas?

    Originally Posted by GySgt
    It's a shame that these same individuals will pull out every stop to attack Christianity.
    Liberalism at its best. Attack all moral fabric and all stable foundations and scream, literally scream, at anybody that disagrees with them, calling them racists, sexists and bigots etc. The old Liberal Politically Correct and Moraly Bankrupt Two Step!

  10. #110
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    Re: Can you call yourself Christian and be Pro Abortion/Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Belle View Post
    Everyone on Earth sins, and every sin can be forgiven by Christ. I know it's warped for Christians to want to kill unborn babies, but as was said, there's nothing in the Bible about Abortion so I can't say how He feels about it... But it doesn't say "All sins except Abortion will be forgiven"...
    I know that is Psalm 139 David talks about how he was formed in the womb, almost sounds like he was thankful that he wasn't aborted. But this Psalm does prove, for Christians and Jews, that we are formed in the womb and completely different from our mothers. Even our genetic codes are different. So that argument that "it's the woman's body, let her do with it what she wants", it doesn't hold a grain of truth in Judeo-Christian beliefs as long as there is a fetus inside her. She can't damage it and if she does, she and the doctor should be changed with pre-meditated murder; or whatever.

    So Christians can be for abortion, but then they are hypocrites. Yes, I break many rules, such as my lust for war and battle, but to murder a child is something I could not do, I'd kill myself before slaughtering an innocent child.

    Of course the Atheists would say that Abraham was going to kill his own son. Well, let me explain this. God wasn't really going to let Abe sacrifice his son, God was just testing his faith and loyalty.

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