View Poll Results: Should we have have invaded?

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  • Yes

    13 29.55%
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    29 65.91%
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Thread: Another Iraq War Poll

  1. #71
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    So, why is propaganda mostly associated with falsities? Because (except as noted above), falsities generally indicate that the conclusion was reached before evidence was sought. Thus, basically, propaganda is improper (backwards) science.
    The problem with this is that it's almost impossible to show it as propaganda except in hindsight. It goes to intent, as you've said, and no one can really know that. To me, declassifying and releasing that information at that time is what makes the case. This was an on-going discussion so releasing that information then, when he had that information long before, is damning evidence.
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  2. #72
    global liberation

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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I can see what you're saying I just disagree.
    Actually, you don't, you're just not fully grasping our agreement. If you really saw it, you'd agree - because you do. There's nothing I've presented that contradicts your definition or presentation. You just don't understand the meta behind it.

    It's only propaganda if the person's intent is to deceive or sway opinion as opposed to disseminating information.

  3. #73
    global liberation

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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The problem with this is that it's almost impossible to show it as propaganda except in hindsight. It goes to intent, as you've said, and no one can really know that. To me, declassifying and releasing that information at that time is what makes the case. This was an on-going discussion so releasing that information then, when he had that information long before, is damning evidence.
    The intel was gathered in '05 and released in '07.

  4. #74
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The intel was gathered in '05 and released in '07.
    And some parts it just happened to be de-classified and released a week before Congress's final decision on the subject? Sounds more like someone did some data mining than it being just dissemination of information.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #75
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And some parts it "just happened" to be de-classified and released a week before Congress's final decision in the subject?
    Why make the intel known before the public really needed to know (decision time)? Our intel agencies only sat on it for like a year; they probably wanted to keep it secret longer but it was decision time.

  6. #76
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Actually, you don't, you're just not fully grasping our agreement. If you really saw it, you'd agree - because you do. There's nothing I've presented that contradicts your definition or presentation. You just don't understand the meta behind it.

    It's only propaganda if the person's intent is to deceive or sway opinion as opposed to disseminating information.
    And precisely how can you tell?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #77
    global liberation

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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And precisely how can you tell?
    Well, if the info is obvious BS, then it was probably just invented for the purpose. Otherwise, it's up to each of us to discern motive/intent. Do you think propaganda comes with a warning label?

  8. #78
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Why make the intel known before the public really needed to know (decision time)? Our intel agencies only sat on it for like a year; they probably wanted to keep it secret longer but it was decision time.
    One could continually keep up that excuse and have no information ever be propaganda.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #79
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, if the info is obvious BS, then it was probably just invented for the purpose. Otherwise, it's up to each of us to discern motive/intent. Do you think propaganda comes with a warning label?
    But now you're back to inventions (lies!), not the truth.

    Yes, it is - and, no I don't.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-21-13 at 08:49 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #80
    global liberation

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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    One could continually keep up that excuse and have no information ever be propaganda.
    False. Any information disseminated for the purpose of a preconceived conclusion is propaganda.

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