View Poll Results: Should we have have invaded?

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Thread: Another Iraq War Poll

  1. #51
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    No arguing that.

    I'm just not convinced of his motives one way or another. Many theories abound and chances are we'll never learn the truth, at least not for 50 years or so, at which point I'll be long dead.
    Until we find out something else, I'm willing to go with what we do know now.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    BS

    We were at war with Iraq and had been for a decade. Plain and simple. Anyone who denies that is either ignorant of history or a POS liar.
    Prove it. Where is your evidence?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Prove it. Where is your evidence?
    Just use Google dude. It's not top secret information that we were at war with Iraq in 2001.

    It's just information that ignorant people are... well... ignorant of, until they find out for themselves.

  4. #54
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Just use Google dude. It's not top secret information that we were at war with Iraq in 2001.

    It's just information that ignorant people are... well... ignorant of, until they find out for themselves.
    Then you ought to have no problem providing links, should you? Please keep them to credible news sites and not conspiracy theorist sites.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Then you ought to have no problem providing links, should you? Please keep them to credible news sites and not conspiracy theorist sites.
    Operation Southern Watch

    COALITION FORCES STRIKE IRAQI COMMAND & CONTROL SYSTEM Nov 27, 2001 -- In response to hostile Iraqi threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a command and control system in southern Iraq at approximately 3:15 a.m. EST.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE COMMAND AND CONTROL SITE October 13, 2001 -- In response to hostile Iraqi threats against Coalition pilots and aircrews conducting routine monitoring of the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a command and control system in southern Iraq at approximately 8: 30 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE IRAQI AAA SITES October 3, 2001 -- In response to hostile Iraqi threats against Coalition pilots and aircrews conducting routine monitoring of the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike two anti-aircraft artillery sites in southern Iraq at approximately 7 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE IRAQI AAA SITES October 2, 2001 -- In response to hostile Iraqi threats against Coalition pilots and aircrews conducting routine monitoring of the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an Iraqi anti-aircraft artillery site in southern Iraq at approximately 8 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE COMMAND AND CONTROL SITES September 27, 2001 -- In response to hostile Iraqi threats against Coalition pilots and aircrews conducting routine monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike anti-aircraft artillery and command and control vehicles and equipment in open fields in southern Iraq at 6:00 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE COMMAND AND CONTROL SITES September 21, 2001 -- In response to hostile Iraqi threats against Coalition pilots and aircrews conducting routine monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike command and control vehicles and equipment in open fields in southern Iraq between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY SITES September 20, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft conducting routine monitoring of the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike anti-aircraft artillery sites in southern Iraq at approximately 7:30 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY SITES September 18, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft conducting routine monitoring of the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an antiaircraft artillery site in southern Iraq approximately 9:30 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY SITES September 9, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike surface-to-air missile sites in southern Iraq between approximately 2 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE AAA & SAM SITES September 4, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike anti-aircraft artillery and surface-to-air missile sites in southern Iraq at approximately 9 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE MILITARY RADAR August 30, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a military radar in southern Iraq at approximately 1:30 p.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE COMMAND AND CONTROL SITES August 28, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike Command and Control sites in southern Iraq at approximately 2 p.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE RADAR SYSTEM August 25, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a mobile early warning radar system in southern Iraq at approximately 4:30 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE RADAR SYSTEM 14 August 2002 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a surface-to-air missile site in southern Iraq at approximately 8:15 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE IRAQI MILITARY SITES August 10, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the No-Fly Zones in Iraq, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today in a routine strike against military communication, radar and missile sites in southern Iraq at approximately 5:30 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE AAA SITE July 17, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an anti-aircraft artillery site in southern Iraq at approximately 2:45 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE AAA SITE July 7, 2001 -- In response to Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an anti-aircraft artillery site in southern Iraq at approximately 3:15 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE AAA SITE June 26, 2001 -- In response to Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an anti-aircraft artillery site in southern Iraq at approximately 3:00 p.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE AAA SITE June 25, 2001 -- In response to Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an anti-aircraft artillery site in southern Iraq at approximately 3:15 p.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE RADAR SITE 14 June, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a radar site in southern Iraq at approximately 3:00 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE RADAR SITE June 6, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a radar site in southern Iraq at approximately 3:00 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE AAA SITE June 5, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile acts against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an anti-aircraft artillery site in southern Iraq at approximately 3:30 a.m. EDT.
    COALITION AIRCRAFT STRIKE SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILE SITE May 18, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile threats against Coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No-Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH Coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a surface to air missile site in southern Iraq at approximately 3:45 a.m. EST.
    COALITION AIRCRAFT STRIKE RADAR SYSTEM April 20, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi hostile acts against coalition aircraft monitoring the Southern No Fly Zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons to strike a mobile early warning radar in southern Iraq yesterday.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE AAA SITES April 12, 2001 -- In response to anti-aircraft artillery fire yesterday against coalition aircraft in Iraq's southern no-fly zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH coalition aircraft today used precision-guided weapons to strike an anti-aircraft artillery site in southern Iraq at approximately 10:45 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.
    COALITION AIRCRAFT RESPOND TO IRAQI AAA FIRE March 30, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi AAA fire directed against coalition forces, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike an anti-aircraft artillery site in Southern Iraq at approximately 2:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.
    Coalition Aircraft Respond To Iraqi Provocations February 16, 2001 -- In response to recent surface-to-air missile (SAM) and anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) fire against coalition forces that enforce United Nations Security Council Resolutions, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft struck Iraqi integrated air defense system sites at approximately 1215 Eastern Standard Time. United States and Britain planes on 16 February targeted six Iraqi command centers, including radar and communications centers, in order to prevent Iraq from being able to fire upon and bring down allied planes in future raids. US officials explained the necessity of this massive raid by pointing out that Iraqi air defenses had fired some 13 missiles at allied pilots in the first six weeks of this year, compared to one missile per month prior to that time. During this raid, the allies hit about 40 percent of the targets they sought to destroy or damage. The low hit rate has caused many defense analysts to call the strikes only a qualified success. The U.S.-British air strikes on Iraqi radar sites triggered a flood of editorials in overseas papers. West European papers for the most part avoided overt criticism of the air strikes, but were nevertheless highly skeptical of the efficacy of a "hardline" U.S. policy toward Iraq. Some Russian dailies echoed Kremlin criticism of the U.S.-British enforcement action, and China's official media, matching Arab invective, lashed out at the U.S.' "brutal attacks."
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE SAM SITE February 13, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi violations of United Nations Security Council Resolutions, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH coalition aircraft used precision-guided weapons today to strike a surface-to-air missile site in southern Iraq at approximately 1:15 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE SAM SITE February 11, 2001 -- In response to anti-aircraft artillery fire today against coalition aircraft in Iraq's southern no-fly zone, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft struck anti-aircraft artillery sites in southern Iraq at approximately 8:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE SAM SITE January 28, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi violations of United Nations Security Council Resolutions, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft used precision-guided weapons to strike surface-to-air missile systems today in southern Iraq at approximately 11:45 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.
    COALITION FORCES STRIKE RADAR SYSTEM AND AAA SITE January 20, 2001 -- In response to Iraqi violations of anti-aircraft artillery and surface to air missile fire today, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft used precision-guided weapons to strike radar systems and anti-aircraft artillery sites today in southern Iraq at approximately 8:15 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.
    COALITION AIRCRAFT STRIKE AAA SITES January 15, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi anti-aircraft artillery fire, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft used precision-guided weapons to strike anti-aircraft artillery sites today in southern Iraq at approximately 6:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.
    COALITION AIRCRAFT STRIKE AAA SITES January 1, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi violations of United Nations Security Council Resolutions and international demarches, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft used precision-guided weapons to strike a radar system today in southern Iraq at approximately 5:15 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.
    COALITION AIRCRAFT STRIKE AAA SITES January 1, 2001 -- In response to recent Iraqi violations of United Nations Security Council Resolutions and international demarches, Operation SOUTHERN WATCH aircraft used precision-guided weapons to strike a radar system today in southern Iraq at approximately 12:15 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.

  6. #56
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    But it wasn't a lie. You admit that AlQ was, in fact, in Iraq and that they were making plans.
    Did I ever say it was a lie? No. In fact, I quoted the definition of "propaganda" just so you would understand that a lie is not necessary for something to be propaganda. Partial truth (or even whole truths) released at just the right time also qualify very well as propaganda.

    Years ago, the anti-war protesters for Vietnam used casualties and maiming's of soldiers as propaganda to further their cause. Were solders not killed and maimed? Of course they were! Were videos of legless solders in wheel chairs faked? Of course not. So, was it propaganda? It sure as hell was! They used the fate of those soldiers to further their cause.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-21-13 at 05:01 AM.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Did I ever say it was a lie? No. In fact, I quoted the definition of "propaganda" just so you would understand that a lie is not necessary for something to be propaganda. Partial truth (or even whole truths) released at just the right time also qualify very well as propaganda.

    Years ago, the anti-war protesters for Vietnam used casualties and maiming's of soldiers as propaganda to further their cause. Were solders not killed and maimed? Of course they were! Were videos of legless solders in wheel chairs faked? Of course not. So, was it propaganda? It sure as hell was! They used the fate of those soldiers to further their cause.
    Can you prove that the information was released for the purpose of more war? It seems to me that the information was released because the information was relevant to decisions being made. Just because you don't like the conclusions reached via information does not mean that information is propaganda.

  8. #58
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Can you prove that the information was released for the purpose of more war? It seems to me that the information was released because the information was relevant to decisions being made. Just because you don't like the conclusions reached via information does not mean that information is propaganda.
    Do you think the Vietnam protesters were using the solders as propaganda or just showing information relevant to the decisions being made?
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  9. #59
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Do you think the Vietnam protesters were using the solders as propaganda or just showing information relevant to the decisions being made?
    I think they were showing the information that caused them to come to their position on the war, much the same as Bush was doing. People explaining their position is not propaganda. It's not propaganda unless it's fake or a shill. As long as the person or persons are using real information that actually influenced their position, it's not propaganda.

    You can only consider Bush's release of information about AlQ in post-invasion Iraq a shill if you presume conspiracy motives and thus claim it was of no actual relevance. The premise of your calling it propaganda is conspiracy theory. Just as the only way I could claim that the protestors were engaged in propaganda is to claim that they didn't really care about the soldiers and thus there were secret reasons for presenting the information.

    If we take each at their word, that the information influenced their position, it's not propaganda.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 04-21-13 at 05:36 AM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Another Iraq War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I think they were showing the information that caused them to come to their position on the war, much the same as Bush was doing. People explaining their position is not propaganda. It's not propaganda unless it's fake or a shill. As long as the person or persons are using real information that actually influenced their position, it's not propaganda.

    You can only consider Bush's release of information about AlQ in post-invasion Iraq a shill if you presume conspiracy motives and thus claim it was of no actual relevance. The premise of your calling it propaganda is conspiracy theory. Just as the only way I could claim that the protestors were engaged in propaganda is to claim that they didn't really care about the soldiers and thus there were secret reasons for presenting the information.

    If we take each at their word, that the information influenced their position, it's not propaganda.
    Then you have a very different understanding of propaganda than either I or Merriam-Webster.

    I believes that resolves our difference of opinion.
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