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Would you marry a stripper?
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Yes, I saw that. I wasn't sure what conclusions to draw from the paper as a whole, though the researcher made his own.
Ok, LOL. I was laughing all the way through this, thinking of variations on your query.
Jokes abound as to his motivation. Depth of commitment...I attended SDSU, or SUDS as it the bumper sticker was reorganized. This paper, coming out of that school, is rather fitting.
To be sure, there are lots of serious and accomplished students coming out there, but it was ranked, nationally, in the top 10 party colleges. I wonder if he had to defend this paper? I would assume so since it was submitted for a Masters in Public Health. Was it oral, because I can't imagine there weren't any giggles in the room.
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Here is where the thread confuses me. Some people do not want their children's teachers to have been strippers, but it seems that they are OK with if their child's father has been a customer at strip clubs. Teachers who have been strippers can't teach morality or geography, but dads who have spent time in strip clubs can somehow teach morality? Huh? How does that work? I'm hearing that it is fine for dads to be strip club patrons, but strippers shouldn't be allowed to teach children.
How about coaches? If your son's football coach spends a couple of nights a month at a titty bar, do you want that horndog tossed out of the school system? Probably not. But if the cheerleading teacher was a stripper in her former life a lot of y'all would want her cancelled contract quicker than you can say, "shake 'em".
What if you discovered your child's teacher was a nudist?
Full disclosure: I spent the night with a stripper. Picked her up at a strip club. She was a lapsed Catholic. I didn't pay her a penny. She was pretty damn good in bed. I've also spent the night with a few teachers. Some were wild as hell. Crazy. Some were pretty damned good in bed. The conversation I had with the stripper was not all that interesting. The conversations I had with the teachers were often interesting and fun. The teachers had a better self image. One teacher I dated for a while just loved to be naked. She once drove from her house to my condo completely naked just to **** with my head. It did! That was 100 times more arousing than any damn strip club. She was apparently a good teacher as she was presented with a teaching award that spring.
People are people, no matter what they do for a living.
One thing I've learned in life is this: People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw parties. :lamo
A sexual deviant is someone who is getting more than you ~ Oscar Wilde
How about coaches? If your son's football coach spends a couple of nights a month at a titty bar, do you want that horndog tossed out of the school system? Probably not. But if the cheerleading teacher was a stripper in her former life a lot of y'all would want her cancelled contract quicker than you can say, "shake 'em".
What if you discovered your child's teacher was a nudist?
Full disclosure: I spent the night with a stripper. Picked her up at a strip club. She was a lapsed Catholic. I didn't pay her a penny. She was pretty damn good in bed. I've also spent the night with a few teachers. Some were wild as hell. Crazy. Some were pretty damned good in bed. The conversation I had with the stripper was not all that interesting. The conversations I had with the teachers were often interesting and fun. The teachers had a better self image. One teacher I dated for a while just loved to be naked. She once drove from her house to my condo completely naked just to **** with my head. It did! That was 100 times more arousing than any damn strip club. She was apparently a good teacher as she was presented with a teaching award that spring.
People are people, no matter what they do for a living.
One thing I've learned in life is this: People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw parties. :lamo
A sexual deviant is someone who is getting more than you ~ Oscar Wilde
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Funny, but the people who interviewed the strippers were all females
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Yes, I saw that. I wasn't sure what conclusions to draw from the paper as a whole, though the researcher made his own.
Ok, LOL. I was laughing all the way through this, thinking of variations on your query.
I attended SDSU, or SUDS as it the bumper sticker was reorganized. This paper, coming out of that school, is rather fitting.
I've done some work at SDSU and I know two professors there. It is a good school. There are many serious professors and students.
At first I thought about the guy's motivation as well. The entire point of doing the thesis is to demonstrate your ability to understand and interpret research. At the doctoral level you have must demonstrate your ability to conduct valid research and of course you must defend your method and analysis. At the master's level you must demonstrate your ability to interpret and apply research. With that understanding why not research strippers? LOL! Having a couple of drinks and talking to nekkid wimmins and somehow accomplishing a life goal is every man's dream! Good on Cody.
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I missed that part. It was probably wise to do it that way as it would likely produce more valid responses.
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I totally missed that. LOL Makes sense though.
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Very cool Risky. I hope I didn't denigrate SDSU. I was often greeted with that SUDS thing while going there. It's just humorous to me.
I know, huh? Why not? Though, as we see from sangha, only women conducted the interviews. Still, on the face of it, it was a good chuckle.
On a more serious note, I can see the value in this research for a masters in public health and he drew good conclusions and made suggestions as to policies that might help exotic dancers.
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So now the problem is that a teacher might cause students to become attracted to them? I guess we have to fire all the good looking teachers then
Or is the problem now that a teacher engages in activities that the students are not accustomed to? In which case, fire any teacher that goes to renassaince fairs.
One of the benefits of going to school is socialization. Children need to learn that what other people do, even if it's something they're not used to, doesn't relieve them of their responsibilities to do well in school
No, children must learn self-control. You can't blame a child's inability to focus on the teacher.
And children understand all about nudist camps :roll:
PS - Please clean up your quotes
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A woman being or having been a stripper doesn't mean she's a porn video to the children in school.
People on this thread seem to keep converting exotic dancing to something else - prostitution or being a porn video star. That is somethinq quite different.
Now and then I've commented that my wife was in major national and international competitions for many years starting at a very young age, and in cheerleading/pep squad - and then of course those scant outfits worn for all of that. One time I asked if she sometimes felt like a strip dancer and if there was any sexuality implications even in calculating her routines?
She said that is a lot about sex and suggestiveness - although is strictly supposed to be atheletics, but with an abstract set of limitations in which the girls don't overtly make it look like she's trying to be seductive or making sexual suggestions. For certain types of competitions - again all athletic but judged - she significantly changed her body language in those routines depending upon whether the judge was male or female. If a man/men she shifted towards being "cute," "flighty," and with very suggestive body and facial language. If a woman/women, then serious minded and with little expression trying to downplay any suggestions of sexuality. If a mixed group of judges, she counted whether it was more men than women.
For one competition, she learned all 3 judges were older men - very rare for women's competitions. And she knew she was up against some of the best competitors in the world, so she entirely changed her routine's intro for the finals. The first 15 seconds or so she was so skillfully sexually suggestive that most exotic dancers couldn't have come close to matching her - and if she had continued likely they would have stopped her. But all she had done in her strategy was to plant the seed and then go on to her regular routine of which she also was incredibly skilled. She got 3 perfect 10s! If a young teenage girl gives older men an errection and they'll vote and she's perfect? :lol:
There are very few women who do not try to promote and sell themselves with sexual attractiveness - the entire makeup and fashion industry is built around this - as is much of the media.
There is that saying: "Ultimately, everything is about sex."
People on this thread seem to keep converting exotic dancing to something else - prostitution or being a porn video star. That is somethinq quite different.
Now and then I've commented that my wife was in major national and international competitions for many years starting at a very young age, and in cheerleading/pep squad - and then of course those scant outfits worn for all of that. One time I asked if she sometimes felt like a strip dancer and if there was any sexuality implications even in calculating her routines?
She said that is a lot about sex and suggestiveness - although is strictly supposed to be atheletics, but with an abstract set of limitations in which the girls don't overtly make it look like she's trying to be seductive or making sexual suggestions. For certain types of competitions - again all athletic but judged - she significantly changed her body language in those routines depending upon whether the judge was male or female. If a man/men she shifted towards being "cute," "flighty," and with very suggestive body and facial language. If a woman/women, then serious minded and with little expression trying to downplay any suggestions of sexuality. If a mixed group of judges, she counted whether it was more men than women.
For one competition, she learned all 3 judges were older men - very rare for women's competitions. And she knew she was up against some of the best competitors in the world, so she entirely changed her routine's intro for the finals. The first 15 seconds or so she was so skillfully sexually suggestive that most exotic dancers couldn't have come close to matching her - and if she had continued likely they would have stopped her. But all she had done in her strategy was to plant the seed and then go on to her regular routine of which she also was incredibly skilled. She got 3 perfect 10s! If a young teenage girl gives older men an errection and they'll vote and she's perfect? :lol:
There are very few women who do not try to promote and sell themselves with sexual attractiveness - the entire makeup and fashion industry is built around this - as is much of the media.
There is that saying: "Ultimately, everything is about sex."
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Good God! I just had to log in and say that all of the above is bull crap. I was a cheerleader. Yes, sometimes the routines might look sexy, but they are NOTHING like the moves that a stripper does! :lamo I know what is acceptable to a school as far as cheering routines go.
Scant outfits and dance moves are NOT the same as being in a strip club taking off your clothes for strange men for payment. Now, I don't hold that against them. People do what they feel they need to do, so who am I to judge, but this is getting completely stupid now.
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Ah, no. I wasn't even addressing you.
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Smartest thing you said in a long time. But that's not a high hurdle to go over
Boo Radley
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Sure, why not. As long as my wife doesn't mind.
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Well, you probably wouldn't tell them, but there is always the possibility that they could find out. Word travels. But more than likely, your child would say "gross Dad!" and not be preoccupied with the thought.
Of course not. I said it has nothing to do with gender but certain behaviors.
Well, my point is that sexuality is the point in a strip club. It isn't just about nudism.
Sorry, I was kidding. I thought the smiley face would make that obvious. And it is still not the same situation. A private sex life is different than working as a stripper.
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Easy enough to take care of, just don't respond to my posts anymore. :shrug: I might be sad for a little while, but I'm sure I'll recover. :roll:
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some conditions are irreversible
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Different moves, but in some ways the same attraction. However, I was not referring to her routines as a cheerleader. Rather just about what cheerleaders wear. She competed in Rymthmics, Rymthmic Gymnastics, Gymnastics, Baton and other related competitions very, very seriously from age 8 to 19.
Apparently the judging of some of those competitions is highly subjective and abstract as to what constitutes "the best." It's not absolute measures like who runs the 100 meters the fastest. Rather, aesthetics comes into play. In that competition she was trying a new field of competition for the first time that is particularly open to styles and measures, was the youngest, and the resumee's of the competition went off the chart. Anyway, I was just stating her opinions of it - and she was the most "innocent" and churchy teen anyone could ever meet. But she also competed to win too.
I don't think it a stretch that men may give higher marks for suggestions of feminine attraction while women judges might mark it down instead. I would guess it has a lot to do with overall impression and even subliminal suggestion. She had her own style and it tended to be she started slow, then did some suprise dazzling thing, then took it back down and built to some amazing conclusion. I won't put any of that online of course, but the level of skill she portrayed in her bit of highly suggestive action was extraordinary of itself. In a sense, she showed a female doesn't have to remove any clothing at all to be extremely desireable in "dance" and that the skill of that routine greatly adds to the seductiveness.
As I've stated myself by my own observations, pole dancing is cheesy and easy. The club I was at didn't have a pole.
I do not think it is getting "stupid" at all. Television, and not just advertising, often is highly focused on sexual attraction as is television in general. Makeup is about physical attraction, not for health, and overall fashion and appearance marketing and purchasing for women is substantially diffferent than for men.
Do I think a cheerleader and a stripper are the same? Of course not. But, then, I also don't define a stripper as a prostitute or porn star either.
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I'm still not buying this. There are rules governing attire and dance moves for these organizations.
http://usagym.org/PDFs/Rhythmic/Rules/Part_II_Section_4.pdf
In your previous post, you said she was on pep squads and cheerleading.
In either case, the description of that competition could not have happened. It may be impolite of me, but I don't buy it.
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I wrote out a response on word - then lost it somehow...
Her high school was small and the cheerleading squad not competitive. Mostly they just did cheers, danced around, no real routines and maybe cartwheel now and then. To the contrary, she could do a running full body rotation backflip catching a baton between her legs behind her back - then instantly rolling it across her shoulder to her other hand into a curtsy and just keep going as 2 seconds of her routine - by age 8 - when she won her first international competition. This would mean little in a big city, but in a small city and being 4th generation locals, she is very famous here. Generally she would only lead the band if it was on the field.
Her being a cheerleader in title was really her just not being in a position to say no. She saw the other female cheerleaders as trite, silly-headed, with over-bloated egos and shallow. Her competitions were intensely serious to her and she focused on goals overall, setting all else aside.
The competition I referred to was not typical and her entered by mistake - accepted for her overall years of successes resume' - and her coach urged her to drop out. It was a created competition for rythmic gymnastics dance. She never did dance competitions. She is intensely competitive and stayed in. In her thought process, she realized she was going up against some of the best New York School of dance style dancers - who would try to integrate some prop into their routine - and against world class fellow rymthmics competitors who would try to integrate dance into their routines.
She looks much younger than she is - a plus and a handicap. In techical skills she was cutting edge and even had broken a few record barriers, but saw herself as lacking in aesthetics and grace - with longer legged competitors being sleeker. But her smaller size allowed her greater speed in simply geometry and allowed her to be more overtly sensual and sexual without crossing the invisible line not to be crossed.
She keeps voluminious journals and her thought process known. She highly shifted for this competition. She generally wore little to no makeup. But for this she went extreme - bright red lipstick, basically white pancake over her otherwise pale skin, so much red on her cheeks as to look clownish, and a slash angled white silk and net mask covering part of her face and 1 eye. The reason for the mask was it was going to be sexually highly suggestive - only a few critical early seconds - and since her goal then was to be church school teacher of young children. She did not want the inevitable videos to harm potential employment in case those deciding hiring shared the anti-sexuality-dancing views of some such as on this thread. Overall, she wanted to look as young as possible and the clownish nature put it all into a playful fantasy impression.
For props she converted a baton to a cane with the identical length and balance as her bations and a top hat. She felt it critical that she disquise she was twirling and to avoid all recognized twirling actions. She felt if they recognized it as a baton, she had no chance. But if they saw it as a cane and a top hat, it would seem incredibly skilled and unique. Part of the sexuality at the first was for such a diversion of focus of the audience and judges. Her preparation mostly was learning to integrate the top hat into the routine. She is an exquisite juggler, so it was not a great challenge.
She wanted to highlight her youth to looking as young as possible (she looks much younger than she is anyway for size and face), as judges tend to decide if a younger competitor is equal to an older one, they should give it to the younger one for being more advanced for her age.
She had a fairly unusual pattern of performances. She would start out almost clumpsy, even like she was dazed or even maybe on some drug - though make no technical errors - for the first few seconds. This was not only to lower expectations, but to loosen up. Thus, she felt at that first moments judges would conclude that young girl was out of her league and would just allow her to finish her routine until the next real competitor came along. She'd then momentarily pause, take a noticeable deep breathe (actually she said a brief prayer) and then she would explode into her first sequence - so the audience and judges would think "WHOA! Maybe that little girl has something afterall!"
Audiences at some of the competitions are encouraged to be vocal in applause and even shouts and cheers, and she always worked the audience. Generally, she would do a few fast, skillful sequence focusing on speed and apparently complexity - but then end it in a momentary kodax moment poise - which were applause points - but then burst into the next sequence to not let the applause conclude. The ability to go from zero to light speed and back to zero was part of her tactics and ability. She would built this sequentially to her signature poise (when appropriate for the competition), which was on her toes one foot in front of the other with her hands arched over her head (her "angel" poise, or victory poise) coming into it suddenly in some burst-of-speed razzle-dazzle action - for which the audience would give it's concluding applause. But then instead break into her truly best sequence of the performance at blazing speed. That the real conclusion - also generally instantly ending with her final landing knelt on one knee, either her hands on the floor beside her or crossed across her chest - bowing to the judges and audience (actually she was saying a thank you prayer for another successful performance. There are unusally and complex metaphysical views of herself that play into all of this. Her natural abilities were recognized in her at a very young age.)
This was a free form dance competition for which what constitutes best was entirely abstract. She picked atypical music and the theme she followed (not stated) was of a cute young woman being seduced by a classy old gentleman (the top hat and cane), for which she is successfully seduced to sex - very pronouncedly so actually. I could describe how but that'd take quite a few words. The rest of the routine was the invisible he (hat and cane) and her doing a romantic and seductive dance together that was a mix between swing and ballroom style - working that cane and hat thru it all.
While the audience loudly cheered, applauded and even so shout-outs for all competitors, during her's someone shouted out "Go Girl Go!" and then the audience was hooting out faster and faster Go! Go! Go! - and this worked perfectly as speed was her speciality. Her performance was perfect and she, the audience and the judges all knew she had nailed it. Three perfect 10s. The comments were for her originality, technical skill and that if she is that good at her young age (thinking she younger than she was), she's really going to go far. The others had been excellent at dance or rythmics, but all of it had been done thousands of times before. Her routine was unique and did have an overall theme. Romance, sensuality/sexually and dance go well together as a storyline.
That particular performance and prep for it affected her in literal ways. These competitions and her 4-5 hours every day since about age 5 or 6 practicing was at the core of her life focus. She was strictly a no-sex until marriage and even no dating or romance until she was ready for courtship. Overall, she was the perfect goody two-shoes. In her journal, she wrote how somehow in that all she changed from being a girl to a young woman - and was ready to pro-actively start looking for her real-life fantasy man for life (husband).
From what I gather, some competitions, like straight gymnastics are strictly technical. She didn't care much for just gymnastics as to her it was too simplistic, too slow and too boring. As she advanced across her career she increasingly was opting towards more complex competitions that allowed more creativity and personal discretion - plus more away for juvenile areas to more adult - though most had certain requirement actions within the routines. Sensuality/sexuality/aesthetics increasingly applicable and certainly moreso as it more approached adult dancing within her routines.
She was - and remains - a local hero for a decade+ of such victories in her hometown (where we now live) always covered in the little local newspaper -and was famous within her fields of competition. She was violently assaulted with very serious injuries bringing that livelong focus to a crashing halt, along with many other life goals and activities.
Believe what you wish.
Her high school was small and the cheerleading squad not competitive. Mostly they just did cheers, danced around, no real routines and maybe cartwheel now and then. To the contrary, she could do a running full body rotation backflip catching a baton between her legs behind her back - then instantly rolling it across her shoulder to her other hand into a curtsy and just keep going as 2 seconds of her routine - by age 8 - when she won her first international competition. This would mean little in a big city, but in a small city and being 4th generation locals, she is very famous here. Generally she would only lead the band if it was on the field.
Her being a cheerleader in title was really her just not being in a position to say no. She saw the other female cheerleaders as trite, silly-headed, with over-bloated egos and shallow. Her competitions were intensely serious to her and she focused on goals overall, setting all else aside.
The competition I referred to was not typical and her entered by mistake - accepted for her overall years of successes resume' - and her coach urged her to drop out. It was a created competition for rythmic gymnastics dance. She never did dance competitions. She is intensely competitive and stayed in. In her thought process, she realized she was going up against some of the best New York School of dance style dancers - who would try to integrate some prop into their routine - and against world class fellow rymthmics competitors who would try to integrate dance into their routines.
She looks much younger than she is - a plus and a handicap. In techical skills she was cutting edge and even had broken a few record barriers, but saw herself as lacking in aesthetics and grace - with longer legged competitors being sleeker. But her smaller size allowed her greater speed in simply geometry and allowed her to be more overtly sensual and sexual without crossing the invisible line not to be crossed.
She keeps voluminious journals and her thought process known. She highly shifted for this competition. She generally wore little to no makeup. But for this she went extreme - bright red lipstick, basically white pancake over her otherwise pale skin, so much red on her cheeks as to look clownish, and a slash angled white silk and net mask covering part of her face and 1 eye. The reason for the mask was it was going to be sexually highly suggestive - only a few critical early seconds - and since her goal then was to be church school teacher of young children. She did not want the inevitable videos to harm potential employment in case those deciding hiring shared the anti-sexuality-dancing views of some such as on this thread. Overall, she wanted to look as young as possible and the clownish nature put it all into a playful fantasy impression.
For props she converted a baton to a cane with the identical length and balance as her bations and a top hat. She felt it critical that she disquise she was twirling and to avoid all recognized twirling actions. She felt if they recognized it as a baton, she had no chance. But if they saw it as a cane and a top hat, it would seem incredibly skilled and unique. Part of the sexuality at the first was for such a diversion of focus of the audience and judges. Her preparation mostly was learning to integrate the top hat into the routine. She is an exquisite juggler, so it was not a great challenge.
She wanted to highlight her youth to looking as young as possible (she looks much younger than she is anyway for size and face), as judges tend to decide if a younger competitor is equal to an older one, they should give it to the younger one for being more advanced for her age.
She had a fairly unusual pattern of performances. She would start out almost clumpsy, even like she was dazed or even maybe on some drug - though make no technical errors - for the first few seconds. This was not only to lower expectations, but to loosen up. Thus, she felt at that first moments judges would conclude that young girl was out of her league and would just allow her to finish her routine until the next real competitor came along. She'd then momentarily pause, take a noticeable deep breathe (actually she said a brief prayer) and then she would explode into her first sequence - so the audience and judges would think "WHOA! Maybe that little girl has something afterall!"
Audiences at some of the competitions are encouraged to be vocal in applause and even shouts and cheers, and she always worked the audience. Generally, she would do a few fast, skillful sequence focusing on speed and apparently complexity - but then end it in a momentary kodax moment poise - which were applause points - but then burst into the next sequence to not let the applause conclude. The ability to go from zero to light speed and back to zero was part of her tactics and ability. She would built this sequentially to her signature poise (when appropriate for the competition), which was on her toes one foot in front of the other with her hands arched over her head (her "angel" poise, or victory poise) coming into it suddenly in some burst-of-speed razzle-dazzle action - for which the audience would give it's concluding applause. But then instead break into her truly best sequence of the performance at blazing speed. That the real conclusion - also generally instantly ending with her final landing knelt on one knee, either her hands on the floor beside her or crossed across her chest - bowing to the judges and audience (actually she was saying a thank you prayer for another successful performance. There are unusally and complex metaphysical views of herself that play into all of this. Her natural abilities were recognized in her at a very young age.)
This was a free form dance competition for which what constitutes best was entirely abstract. She picked atypical music and the theme she followed (not stated) was of a cute young woman being seduced by a classy old gentleman (the top hat and cane), for which she is successfully seduced to sex - very pronouncedly so actually. I could describe how but that'd take quite a few words. The rest of the routine was the invisible he (hat and cane) and her doing a romantic and seductive dance together that was a mix between swing and ballroom style - working that cane and hat thru it all.
While the audience loudly cheered, applauded and even so shout-outs for all competitors, during her's someone shouted out "Go Girl Go!" and then the audience was hooting out faster and faster Go! Go! Go! - and this worked perfectly as speed was her speciality. Her performance was perfect and she, the audience and the judges all knew she had nailed it. Three perfect 10s. The comments were for her originality, technical skill and that if she is that good at her young age (thinking she younger than she was), she's really going to go far. The others had been excellent at dance or rythmics, but all of it had been done thousands of times before. Her routine was unique and did have an overall theme. Romance, sensuality/sexually and dance go well together as a storyline.
That particular performance and prep for it affected her in literal ways. These competitions and her 4-5 hours every day since about age 5 or 6 practicing was at the core of her life focus. She was strictly a no-sex until marriage and even no dating or romance until she was ready for courtship. Overall, she was the perfect goody two-shoes. In her journal, she wrote how somehow in that all she changed from being a girl to a young woman - and was ready to pro-actively start looking for her real-life fantasy man for life (husband).
From what I gather, some competitions, like straight gymnastics are strictly technical. She didn't care much for just gymnastics as to her it was too simplistic, too slow and too boring. As she advanced across her career she increasingly was opting towards more complex competitions that allowed more creativity and personal discretion - plus more away for juvenile areas to more adult - though most had certain requirement actions within the routines. Sensuality/sexuality/aesthetics increasingly applicable and certainly moreso as it more approached adult dancing within her routines.
She was - and remains - a local hero for a decade+ of such victories in her hometown (where we now live) always covered in the little local newspaper -and was famous within her fields of competition. She was violently assaulted with very serious injuries bringing that livelong focus to a crashing halt, along with many other life goals and activities.
Believe what you wish.
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Then that competition had nothing to do with cheer leading or rhythmic gymnastics as the earlier posts suggested. Their rules are very firm about that kind of thing and conflating cheer/gymnastics with stripping is improper.
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I would not. That's one of my few deal-brakers. I would want someone with a bit more class and moral integrity than a stripper.