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  • Yes, there probably are more abortion doctors like Gosnell

    24 80.00%
  • No, Gosnell is an anomaly

    6 20.00%
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Thread: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

  1. #221
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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) not sure how that makes the term disingenuous? i could use EF if you like that but doesnt change the discussion at all.
    No more so than my use of the word murder, no.

    2.) false, you are giving me an example of this case, the fact remains there have been abortions (which is only a medical procedure to stop pregnancy) that the ZEF lives.
    These are failed abortions. By definition, a successful abortion implies killing the fetus.

    Abortion can is preformed if the ZEF is already dead, an abortions is preformed if the ZEF is a live and when the abortion is over whether the ZEF is a live of dead has no impact to the abortion.
    This is induction of labor, which, while it can be an aspect of abortion, is not by itself abortion.

    while the super vast majority of abortions result in the death of the ZEF since they are preformed before viability abortion by definition is not dependent of the life of the ZEF.
    Actually it is:

    Abortion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as
    a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare miscarriage
    b : induced expulsion of a human fetus
    c : expulsion of a fetus by a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy — compare contagious abortion
    If the fetus lives, it is not abortion.
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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    1.)No more so than my use of the word murder, no.



    2.)These are failed abortions. By definition, a successful abortion implies killing the fetus.



    3.)This is induction of labor, which, while it can be an aspect of abortion, is not by itself abortion.



    4.)Actually it is:

    Abortion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    5.)If the fetus lives, it is not abortion.

    1.) Zef is accurate, murder is not
    2.) false not all abortions have to terminate a ZEF, sorry you are factually wrong
    3.) false again by the medical definition of abortion
    4.) actually its not, your ONE definition doesnt cover them all sorry, there are many,would you like more?

    Dicitionaries
    Definition of abortion in Oxford Dictionaries (British & World English)
    1 [mass noun] the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks:concerns such as abortion and euthanasia
    abortion noun (END OF PREGNANCY) - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online
    END OF PREGNANCY
    American Heritage Dictionary Entry: abortion
    b. Any of various procedures that result in the termination of a pregnancy. Also called induced abortion.
    Abortion | Define Abortion at Dictionary.com
    1.Also called voluntary abortion. the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.
    2.any of various surgical methods for terminating a pregnancy, especially during the first six months.

    Medical
    abortion - definition of abortion in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    1. expulsion from the uterus of the products of conception before the fetus is viable.
    2. premature stoppage of a natural or a pathological process.
    2. Any of various procedures that result in such a termination of pregnancy.
    Abortion definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms
    Abortion: In medicine, an abortion is the premature exit of the products of conception (the fetus, fetal membranes, and placenta) from the uterus. It is the loss of a pregnancy and does not refer to why that pregnancy was lost.
    Abortion -- Medical Definition
    Definitions:
    1. Expulsion from the uterus of an embryo or fetus before viability (20 weeks' gestation [18 weeks after fertilization] or fetal weight less than 500 g). A distinction made between abortion and premature birth is that premature infants are those born after the stage of viability but before 37 weeks' gestation. Abortion may be either spontaneous (occurring from natural causes) or induced (artificially or therapeutically).
    2. The arrest of any action or process before its normal completion.
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/abortion.html
    An abortion is a procedure to end a pregnancy. It uses medicine or surgery to remove the embryo or fetus and placenta from the uterus. The procedure is done by a licensed health care professional.

    definition of an abortion preformed on a fetus already dead
    Dilation and evacuation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Dilation and evacuation (also sometimes called dilation and extraction) literally refers to the dilation of the cervix and surgical evacuation of the contents of the uterus. It is a method of abortion as well as a therapeutic procedure used after miscarriage to prevent infection by ensuring that the uterus is fully evacuated.[1][2]

    In various health care centers it may be called by different names:

    D&E (Dilation and evacuation)
    ERPOC (Evacuation of Retained Products of Conception)
    TOP or STOP ((Surgical) Termination Of Pregnancy)


    5.) false, by the medical definition the abortion is 100% successful because the PREGNANCY was terminated.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 04-16-13 at 08:41 PM.
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  3. #223
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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And every woman has the right to take an unborn childs life.
    This is quite a statement to ponder.

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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    For the record dude, if you're skeptical about something, you can just politely ask for citations rather than being passive aggressively rude about it.

    From the abortion subforum today:



    Like I said. At least two. There was a prominent paper by some European ethicists widely talked about in this forum as well, I believe more than just those two agreed with their findings, but I'd have to find the thread.

    Again, I'm not even making a value judgment here, just noting that these folks exist, which rendered the statement I was replying to false. Which is what I said...
    I don't remember which thread--there are two with similar subject lines, and I think it's the one with the warning at Post #140. Anyway, I think you're talking about cpwill's posts about the abstract of an article from the British Medical Journal: After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Do you think there are more Kermit Gosnells in this country? (If you don't know the story, you need to know...)

    Abortion Doctor Trial: Coverage of Kermit Gosnell Case Sparks Debate

    If so, what should be done about this?
    Simple answer, stop the organized/legalized murder of children.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  6. #226
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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Simple answer, stop the organized/legalized murder of children.
    that would have to be happening first and has nothing to do with the OP
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  7. #227
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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) Zef is accurate, murder is not
    Zygotes are not aborted. ZEF is a dehumanizing term that is also technically inaccurate.

    2.) false not all abortions have to terminate a ZEF, sorry you are factually wrong
    3.) false again by the medical definition of abortion
    4.) actually its not, your ONE definition doesnt cover them all sorry, there are many,would you like more?
    Let's take a look then.

    Dicitionaries
    Definition of abortion in Oxford Dictionaries (British & World English)
    1 [mass noun] the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks:concerns such as abortion and euthanasia
    abortion noun (END OF PREGNANCY) - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online
    END OF PREGNANCY
    American Heritage Dictionary Entry: abortion
    b. Any of various procedures that result in the termination of a pregnancy. Also called induced abortion.
    Abortion | Define Abortion at Dictionary.com
    1.Also called voluntary abortion. the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.
    2.any of various surgical methods for terminating a pregnancy, especially during the first six months.

    Medical
    abortion - definition of abortion in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    1. expulsion from the uterus of the products of conception before the fetus is viable.
    2. premature stoppage of a natural or a pathological process.
    2. Any of various procedures that result in such a termination of pregnancy.
    Abortion definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms
    Abortion: In medicine, an abortion is the premature exit of the products of conception (the fetus, fetal membranes, and placenta) from the uterus. It is the loss of a pregnancy and does not refer to why that pregnancy was lost.
    Abortion -- Medical Definition
    Definitions:
    1. Expulsion from the uterus of an embryo or fetus before viability (20 weeks' gestation [18 weeks after fertilization] or fetal weight less than 500 g). A distinction made between abortion and premature birth is that premature infants are those born after the stage of viability but before 37 weeks' gestation. Abortion may be either spontaneous (occurring from natural causes) or induced (artificially or therapeutically).
    2. The arrest of any action or process before its normal completion.
    Abortion: MedlinePlus
    An abortion is a procedure to end a pregnancy. It uses medicine or surgery to remove the embryo or fetus and placenta from the uterus. The procedure is done by a licensed health care professional.

    definition of an abortion preformed on a fetus already dead
    Dilation and evacuation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Dilation and evacuation (also sometimes called dilation and extraction) literally refers to the dilation of the cervix and surgical evacuation of the contents of the uterus. It is a method of abortion as well as a therapeutic procedure used after miscarriage to prevent infection by ensuring that the uterus is fully evacuated.[1][2]

    In various health care centers it may be called by different names:

    D&E (Dilation and evacuation)
    ERPOC (Evacuation of Retained Products of Conception)
    TOP or STOP ((Surgical) Termination Of Pregnancy)


    5.) false, by the medical definition the abortion is 100% successful because the PREGNANCY was terminated.
    Fair enough, though we all know what's implied by "abortion." Some definitions seem to dodge the issue, however.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    1.)Zygotes are not aborted.
    2.)ZEF is a dehumanizing term that is also technically inaccurate.



    Let's take a look then.



    2.)Fair enough, though we all know what's implied by "abortion." Some definitions seem to dodge the issue, however.
    1.)im sorry did i say they were and technically they are, just not surgically or medically aborted, they are naturally aborted (miscarried) though.
    2.) ZEF is 100% accurate as it is a medical acronym this fact will not change and as already been proven.
    your OPINION that its dehumanizing is not supportable by any facts or honest logic, if you disagree id love for you to post some. Id bet all you have is an opinion on it.

    3.) theres no dodge of the issue, thats what the medical definition is. The issue is language and slang, which im fine with but thats the issue. Thats the real dodge. Its like terms, reverse racism or legal murder, its nonsensical and illogical in reality and by definition but its terms that we have come to use and people understand but not accurate or factually.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 04-16-13 at 09:59 PM.
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  9. #229
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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Do you think there are more Kermit Gosnells in this country? (If you don't know the story, you need to know...)

    Abortion Doctor Trial: Coverage of Kermit Gosnell Case Sparks Debate

    If so, what should be done about this?
    Sick, depraved people do sick, depraved ****.

    What can be done is people being more aware, concern, and vigilant in their daily lives.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  10. #230
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    Re: "The House of Horrors" Gosnell case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    that would have to be happening first and has nothing to do with the OP
    Are you sure you're in the thread you think you are?

    The article quoted in the op clearly refers to an Abortion (legalized and organized murder of children) doctor (who apparently forgot the motto "first do no harm", since he made his living murdering children) who killed a woman and some children trying to perform late term abortions.

    So clearly it is happening and clearly it very much has to do with this thread.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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