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What would you expect a woman to do?
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DDD
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So the man is a teenager with no muscle yet in this scenario to have an involuntary erection of a non dainty woman then?
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First of all, your question doesn't make a lot of sense. I re-read it three times, and still it is unclear. Secondly, you simply said a woman can't rape a man. You didn't qualify your statement with "the man is a teenager with no muscle." You said, "This is stupid. How can a woman rape a man?" I gave you one way. Just one. It's kind of naïve to think that a man can't be raped by a woman.
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Men can get an erection riding on a bus!!
There would be one simple way to solve the whole problem..If you are about to get raped..smile at the guy..and say ''Hey honey..how about a blow job??
Kneel down..push his legs apart and bite his balls as hard as you can..and roll to the back of him..(then he can't hit you)..hold in there until the ambulance arrives to take you both to hospital to get you surgically removed!!
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If you're outsized, outgunned, outclassed, chances are that you will be lucky to get only one strike, one chance. And you may have to work to set that strike up.
For this reason, it is important for everyone to know exactly where that strike should go. Even if you have no training, if you can cup an eye and rip it out, a straight finger strike jab to push the Adam's apple out the back of the neck, grab a testicle and try to crush it, etc., etc.
The slightest bit of knowledge used forcefully and with all your strength at the right time would be your best and probably only chance so you have to make it work. You have no choice. (If I understood the OP correctly, which was an exercise in itself).
For this reason, it is important for everyone to know exactly where that strike should go. Even if you have no training, if you can cup an eye and rip it out, a straight finger strike jab to push the Adam's apple out the back of the neck, grab a testicle and try to crush it, etc., etc.
The slightest bit of knowledge used forcefully and with all your strength at the right time would be your best and probably only chance so you have to make it work. You have no choice. (If I understood the OP correctly, which was an exercise in itself).
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THAT is what I would be afraid of, making an attacker even MORE angry. Nope, I think I'd rather just kill an attacker.
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Most women I've been with would likely be unable to intervene.
Capster78
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I was about to get upset until you said at the bottom, to read it in the context of the thread. None of those posts state i would just run from anyone trying to attack my wife.
Capster78
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Did I now, well we can see that your views are set in stone and you have so much self pride that you are not willing to listen to the other side.
Well, I can't say that I went out and did all the research myself, bud did you go out and do all your reasearch yourself or did you provide us with links? Talk about calling the kettle black.
Does it matter. Do you not think men have the right to speak up about things they are not happy about? Or are they just a bunch of screaming heads. I think by the above comment I can already conclude that the only concerns that matter are the concerns of women. Men are just screaming heads. Without even knowing it, you have already proven my point by making the above comment.
Here's a couple examples I found on the fly.
nearly 2 percent of coal miners are women.
I dont see any deconstruction, just facades...
I understand exactly what feminism is... Modern feminism has turned against all its founding principles. It started out as a fight for equality. Once it went from fighting for equality, to fighting for the interest of women alone, it was no longer fighting for equality. It is fighting for womens interestes, like a company would fight for its interests by lobying congress. And in business, there is no such thing as equality.
No, when women speak up they are patted on the back.
When men speak up, they are belittled and heckled. You can see this in the media every day. When a man makes a controversial comment, right or wrong, he is raked over the coals in the media.
When a woman makes a controversial statment about a man, she is applauded.
So you don't believe it ever happens?
Again, only 2 percent of coal miners are women......
We will see.. now that combat roles are opened up for women.. we will see if the percentage improves. However, right now women make up about 20% of the military. Most of which serve in the Navy and Air force. And in both services... the standards for a woman to qualify are much lower than for a male.
I would disagree. Unless you have an anarchist view, you understand the need for a draft. Every citizen should be expected to protect the country they enjoy the benefits of living in. Call it nationalism, I call it responsibility.
Once again, you appear to be a lazy researcher.
And only 3 percent of women work in construction.... hmmm...
And women make up about 4% of all pilots........
You did not debunk anything I said. In fact you did me a service and provided many organizations that are out there to more than support women who want to get into these professions but women make up less than 5% of these professions.
There is an organization out there to promote women breast cancer awarness and women get 1000% more funding for cancer than men do... Yet, all the organizations you posted that support women in these critical career fields have only managed to get at most 5% of the female populace to sign up...hmmm.. seems like women are picking and choosing to me... and there seems to be no social expectation for them to do so, unlike men.
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SmokeAndMirrors
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Egads... I'm going to try my best with this, but you did quite a hack job with the quotes and it's hard to follow you.
Yes, I did most of it myself, because I've debated people like you before.
But even if I hadn't so what? Those organizations objectively exist, don't they?
Of course they do. I've spent quite a lot of time doing it myself, as a feminist. Feminism should be imminently concerned with the ever-changing metrics of power between the genders.
But what you're doing is not "expressing a concern." You are making baseless assertions using no real information.
I didn't say men are screaming heads. I said the kind of MRA douchebags you're getting your information from are screaming heads. Some MRA's are women.
There's a difference between a man and an MRA. Not all rectangles are squares, and all that.
And if you had done some research on some of the egregious sexual offenses female miners have faced, you would know why.
That is why women's miners advocacy groups exist. They want to encourage women into the field by reducing the likelihood that they will be treated badly.
So proving your wrong a dozen times over with the objective existence of the organizations you said don't exist is a facade? Ok, then. :lol:
Obviously not. I'm a feminist. A lot of men here are feminists. A lot of us spend a lot of time talking about some of the inequalities that exist on the side of men.
But here's the thing: the majority of those inequalities are caused by patriarchy. See my first post to you about "women and children first" being a principle of patriarchy, due to the idea that women are helpless and stupid. This has the affect of devaluing the lives of men.
I won't deny there are some women who are reluctant to give up some privileges patriarchy affords them. But most of these women are "conservative" and don't consider themselves feminists.
There are feminists who are reluctant as well, and they are hypocrites. You won't get any argument from me about that.
I won't debate this happens, and if you'd read my post more carefully, you'd see that I never did.
It's the rule of trends. If you only get heckled once in a while, chances are you might be saying something society isn't ready for. And in that case, you might be right.
But if it's happening all the time, chances are you're saying something stupid.
We do see examples of women getting away with violent rhetoric against men, yes, that's true. I, for one, make a point of calling that out consistently, as do many other feminists of either sex.
But when a man gets heckled for something like being abused or a survivor of rape, who is heckling him? Overwhelmingly, it's other men.
See above.
Ok. So whose fault is it that the standards are what they are? Not the woman's.
I am not saying whether the standards should be higher or lower, but you can't say women are "unwilling" when the standards are such that they often don't qualify.
Yup. See my point about female coal miners.
Mm-hmm. As I understand it, there might actually be a perceptual reason for this. Women tend to be good spacial organizers and night seers (which is why they make fantastic spies), but men tend to have the advantage with depth perception (which is why they make up the majority of pilots).
You said women don't fight for these things. I proved you wrong beyond any shadow of doubt.
And if you'd read a bit about this, you would see why women are less prevalent in these fields, and it's not necessarily because they don't want to participate. It's because of the way men treat them, in most cases.
Actually, it's that men tend to not go to the doctor. It's another one of those patriarchal "men don't need help" things.
I know a couple of therapists who tell me that they always take male depression patients a lot more seriously, because men won't come in for help until they're 2 seconds away from killing themselves. Women tend to come in much sooner, before a crisis point has been reached.
In fact, the problem of men refusing to see a doctor is so bad that women have to advocate FOR THEM.
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This is incredibly unfortunate. We basically emotionally beat boys until they are unable to admit any sign of weakness.
But if you want to find the source of that, feminism isn't it. After all, in traditionalist families, mommies are supposed to be "the nice parent," while daddies are "the bad cop."
In summary, what you've done here is two things, both of which are fallacious on their face.
1. Taken a fringe of feminism and applied it to hundreds of millions of male and female feminists worldwide.
2. Misattributed the source of the problems to feminism when, in fact, the majority of them come from left-overs of patriarchy interacting with modern society.
Yes, I did most of it myself, because I've debated people like you before.
But even if I hadn't so what? Those organizations objectively exist, don't they?
Of course they do. I've spent quite a lot of time doing it myself, as a feminist. Feminism should be imminently concerned with the ever-changing metrics of power between the genders.
But what you're doing is not "expressing a concern." You are making baseless assertions using no real information.
I didn't say men are screaming heads. I said the kind of MRA douchebags you're getting your information from are screaming heads. Some MRA's are women.
There's a difference between a man and an MRA. Not all rectangles are squares, and all that.
And if you had done some research on some of the egregious sexual offenses female miners have faced, you would know why.
That is why women's miners advocacy groups exist. They want to encourage women into the field by reducing the likelihood that they will be treated badly.
So proving your wrong a dozen times over with the objective existence of the organizations you said don't exist is a facade? Ok, then. :lol:
Obviously not. I'm a feminist. A lot of men here are feminists. A lot of us spend a lot of time talking about some of the inequalities that exist on the side of men.
But here's the thing: the majority of those inequalities are caused by patriarchy. See my first post to you about "women and children first" being a principle of patriarchy, due to the idea that women are helpless and stupid. This has the affect of devaluing the lives of men.
I won't deny there are some women who are reluctant to give up some privileges patriarchy affords them. But most of these women are "conservative" and don't consider themselves feminists.
There are feminists who are reluctant as well, and they are hypocrites. You won't get any argument from me about that.
I won't debate this happens, and if you'd read my post more carefully, you'd see that I never did.
It's the rule of trends. If you only get heckled once in a while, chances are you might be saying something society isn't ready for. And in that case, you might be right.
But if it's happening all the time, chances are you're saying something stupid.
We do see examples of women getting away with violent rhetoric against men, yes, that's true. I, for one, make a point of calling that out consistently, as do many other feminists of either sex.
But when a man gets heckled for something like being abused or a survivor of rape, who is heckling him? Overwhelmingly, it's other men.
See above.
Ok. So whose fault is it that the standards are what they are? Not the woman's.
I am not saying whether the standards should be higher or lower, but you can't say women are "unwilling" when the standards are such that they often don't qualify.
Yup. See my point about female coal miners.
Mm-hmm. As I understand it, there might actually be a perceptual reason for this. Women tend to be good spacial organizers and night seers (which is why they make fantastic spies), but men tend to have the advantage with depth perception (which is why they make up the majority of pilots).
You said women don't fight for these things. I proved you wrong beyond any shadow of doubt.
And if you'd read a bit about this, you would see why women are less prevalent in these fields, and it's not necessarily because they don't want to participate. It's because of the way men treat them, in most cases.
Actually, it's that men tend to not go to the doctor. It's another one of those patriarchal "men don't need help" things.
I know a couple of therapists who tell me that they always take male depression patients a lot more seriously, because men won't come in for help until they're 2 seconds away from killing themselves. Women tend to come in much sooner, before a crisis point has been reached.
In fact, the problem of men refusing to see a doctor is so bad that women have to advocate FOR THEM.
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This is incredibly unfortunate. We basically emotionally beat boys until they are unable to admit any sign of weakness.
But if you want to find the source of that, feminism isn't it. After all, in traditionalist families, mommies are supposed to be "the nice parent," while daddies are "the bad cop."
In summary, what you've done here is two things, both of which are fallacious on their face.
1. Taken a fringe of feminism and applied it to hundreds of millions of male and female feminists worldwide.
2. Misattributed the source of the problems to feminism when, in fact, the majority of them come from left-overs of patriarchy interacting with modern society.
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Capster78
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All your sources are 2nd hand sources.. are you a socialogist or a statistics major that lead these studies. There are virtually thousands of studies on women's issues, but very very few on men's issues. I agree that men need to speak up and that is what I am advocating for. MEN YOU NEED TO SPEAK UP!!!!!!!!! That is the main problem. Most men are raised from childhood not to complain about being hurt, just to suck it up and move on. It had practical purposes maybe 400-500 or more years ago as most men were expected to be warriors. And if they were constant complainers, they would be a liability to the protection of the tribe/colony/state/country. Those days are long gone. And I think men have come a long way to change themselves to the new reality, but women have not. The majority of women still expect to be treated like women and not like equals.
They exist, but they have no support among women obviously because they have been ineffective getting women to pull their weight in these fields. The reason is, as i have said many times, most women want to be privy to all the booty without concequence or risk. Which is why most career fields that keep the foundations of our country solid are populated by men by a VAST VAST majority.
When i see a feminist promoting funding and awareness for prostate cancer, I may concede partially to your point. As it stands, male prostate cancer is still a GIANT issue where as female breast cancer is widely know about.
They are not baseless, the statistical indications are all there. You can choose to ignore them if you like. But I would hope for your fathers, your husbands and your brothers sake, you wont. I you care about them at all at least.
And the Mens Rights Movement is comprised of men with legitimate concerns. I don't understand how you can sit there and say that men don't have any legitimate concerns and women do. We all deserve a voice. And men have separate gender concerns. To throw that aside simply proves all the points I have made. Men have concerns, but society has raised them to silence them. Men and Women alike must bring these men out and tell them it is ok to voice their fears and concerns.
There are some MRA concepts I disagree with. I am not as ferverent as you might think. The way I see it, is both sexes have concerns. And both sexes deserved to be heard. So when I hear about Mens Rights Movements events being picketed by feminists, or their advertisement posters being torn down, I cringe. This is exactly what some men did at the time at the women's rights movement in the 50's and 60's. It was wrong for men to try to subdue the womens rights movements and hear their concerns, just as it is wrong for women and their male enablers to subdue the voices of men who have concerns. We wonder why men do not express themselves or go to the doctor, yet we dismiss their concerns just as you have throughout your entire post. This is a societal norm which has, over thousands of years, subdued male expression.
This is certainly an area men need to work on. But I do not think this is the reason women are not flocking to these jobs. Women still dont want to do these jobs because they are dirty, labor intensive and dangerous. Again, pick and choose.
Why don't they fight for both sexes being treated badly? Not just women? That is the difference between feminism and equality.
Its a facade because you tried to use that in your argument as a way to debunk what I had said. When in reality, it only proved my point even further. Agencies exist, yet women still are less then 5% of the workforce. I would be willing to bet these agencies purpose is to provide protection and rights to women, more than they promote women entering these fields. I have seen 1,000 commercials about supporting breast cancer, but no commercials encouraging women to step up to the plate and earn the equality they are demanding.
Those men are misguided. Many are feminists because they are actually the furthest thing from being feminists. It is kind of like yoga. A man sees a bunch of sexy women streatching in tights, of course he is going to want to be in that group of women. He does not care if other men think he is potentially gay for doing yoga. He is just thinking of all the poon he can get by putting all these females on pedestals.
I agree, but women are doing nothing to step up to the plate and say.. hey... we want to be a part of this as well. It is largely left to men to do all the sacrifice. Again, we will see what happens as combat roles are opened up for women. I will hold my criticism until we see what happens.
Some.. I would say a vast majority.... But they follow the feminist thinking that they deserve all the respect without earning it. While men die fighting fires, fighting our enemies and maintaining the infrastructure we rely on to keep our country going. These roles have not changed, and they need to. Women need to step up to the plate if they ever expect to be taken seriously when it comes to equality. less than 5 percent is not going to cut it.
I know I am correct. It is all over the internet......
It does not happen every time. I find, on occasion that a woman will actually agree with me. But for the most part, women still stick to the traditional role, while expecting to be treated as equal when it suits them.
Its rampant.... You will not find a TV station that does not have a commercial where a man is bumbing and stubling around like an idiot while the woman is seen as sensible and smart. It is actually comical to both men and women that men are seen in this light. If we were to reverse roles where women are the stupid ones, the station would immediately be sent letters of discontent and protest.
sadly, it is true and something that needs to be addressed.
See above.
If you see it that way, then you really are not interested in eqaulity.
What are women in the US doing to qualify.......
The days of visual "seat by the pants" piloting are over. You don't want to argue with me here as I am actually an Aircraft Technician. A woman is just as capable in an Aircraft as a man would be.
Interesting... so if this is the case, then why have they manages to succeed in all the lucrative fields.. and not in the less lucrative fields? If this were the case, the equal rights movement would have been stopped across the board. But it seems that in the most lucrative areas, it has succeeded.
This is an issue as well, an issue that men need to work on. Women have done wonders for women's health. Why not raise awarness of men's health issues. Why are there few women, if any, who are not one sided.
At least you acknowledge there is an issue. Women are currently the most influential group of people.. so why do they not care about their husbands, fathers and brothers??
I honestly have never heard of this before... Why is that? That is the problem...
Agree completely!!!!
This is where the problem lies. Men are being marginalized in relationships. Which in turn, makes them less likely to commit. Which in turn, leads to more single parent families. Particularly, female run families. Which means, most males who grow up raised by women don't get the "bad cop" treatment they need. With boys, you need to set boundries and hold to them. This is where most moms fail as they are the "nice parent" who lets them off the hook. Example... if he does not finish his vegetables, he still gets the ice cream because he tried really hard.
Its the fringe feminist ideals that reach the public. Which is why, as I have shown several times, men are still stuck in their traditional roles and there seems to be no social pressure for women to move out of their traditional roles.
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We don't need you to help us. We don't want to go to the ****ing doctor! At first I was cool with women fighting causes for men, but after looking into it some more I realize it's just ****ing annoying. It's like they want to be mothers to all men. My mother is in her mid-fifties and I only have one. Stop it.
SmokeAndMirrors
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Ok.
Just pointing out how stupid it is for men to complain about a lack of medical attention when they're the ones refusing to see doctors. :shrug:
Capster78
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Unfortunately, we do need them to fight for us. Men are generally subborn but are genetically greatly influence by women. Just as women need help physically in some areas, men also need some help from women.
Capster78
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Don't you see that, that is the problem. It is the criticism that effects men the most. As a mother, wife or sister you have ALOT of influence on them. If you are a woman, you understand this concept completely. It has always been a woman's secret weapon, is her sexual influence over men.
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The point is we don't need women to tell us what we already damn well know. It's not as if we don't know what we should have done and when. Men do not like going to doctor and like it or not that is our choice to make for whatever reason we see fit and it doesn't matter if you like or not. I don't care what you think it is based on and I don't even care myself what it is based on. I don't want to go to the damn doctor.
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Very ignorant. My father was the same way. Spent his entire life refusing to even go to the doctor for a single shot. Dropped dead of a heart attack at 67 years old. The first time he ever had a needle in his arm was when he was hooked up to IVs, in the bed he died in, while we stood around, crying, begging him not to leave us.
Had he gone to a doctor, this probably would have been avoided with medication.
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Mostly, men don't think it's manly to go to the doctor. Afraid it makes them look weak. I am fortunate. My husband knows that he would be dead now if not for his doctors, and he makes, and keeps his appointments. Just wish my Father would have done the same.
Capster78
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This is why we need a concerted effort thru the media to change this perception. Again, one of the issues that I feel very passionately about is getting men the medical attention they need.
I am very guilty of this. I had torn a ligament in my ankle playing basketball with my friends and tried "walking it off" for 3 weeks. Eventually I did seek medical assistence when I could no longer perform my physical training test for my job. Most jobs don;t require this, so when men get injured, they tend to "walk it off" and never heal. This is why men die much earlier than woman.. among other things like being the only ones expected to fight wars and do risky professions..
SmokeAndMirrors
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Linking to the official website for an advocacy group is a "second hand source?" Ok, then. :lol:
What studies are you talking about? I didn't link to any studies.
Yes, men need to speak up. However, it would behoove them to speak about things that actually exist, which you aren't doing.
...And what evidence of that do you have?
You're right, women are less likely to go into professions where they know they will be sexually abused. Duh.
Yup. And men need to start talking about their medical needs, or else no one is going to know what they are.
Women have done that with their own medical needs. They have even shown willingness to do it for mens' medical needs. I don't know what else you can expect.
I never said men don't have any legitimate concerns. I named several in my posts.
But the MRA's do themselves no favors with their fantasy-based claims and woman-hating rhetoric. And like I said, some MRA's are women, just like some feminists are men.
There are some rational MRA's out there, but unfortunately, their voices are completely drowned out by the insanity of the majority of the group. If you want men's issues to get some legitimate attention, then I suggest you distance yourself from that, as I do from radical feminism.
No, you are definitely not the most fervent I've seen. But you put yourself at risk by simply parroting the talking points of some of the worst extremists. Think for yourself, and do your own homework.
I've got no problem shutting down radical feminists, and no problem shutting down MRA's for the same reason. If you consider yourself part of this movement, you need to take it back from extremism. Feminism has *never* had such a high percentage of extremists as MRA's do, because MRA is almost entirely an online movement. It has no physical presence.
I'd like to see a link to women "tearing down" MRA's protests. But I've read of MRA's basically celebrating a guy who shot people in a court room, so... even if that's true, can't say I'm surprised.
Because they are for women's miners. They aren't the union.
So first you were upset that women "don't advocate for these positions," and now you're upset that they do?
Oh my god. More tired, parroted rhetoric from the most hateful of the MRA's.
You're a pretty crap advocate for men's rights. You're painting men as basically slobbering dogs.
No, they don't. They want to be "taken care of" and often have little in the way of personal dreams.
They aren't part of feminism. They're part of the same machine that is causing probably 80% of the issues you're complaining about.
Yes, but only when that commercial is pertaining to something about house keeping or children.
It's sexism going both ways: men have no common sense, and women only thrive barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
Sexism sells. Men get to justify dumping all the domestic work on women because "they're no good at it anyway" and women get to feel superior about something.
This is a legitimate thing, but again, you're viewing it with blinders. This isn't just "sexism against men." It's a sexism social presentation on the whole, towards both genders.
How is stating the simple fact that women aren't setting those standards mean I'm "not interested in equality?"
Beside the point. The point is very simple: you cannot make the claim that women aren't interested in the military when they are often disqualified from participating. The final numbers don't reflect the degree of interest.
Ok. See, I didn't really know that. I suspect a lot of other women don't either. It will take time for people to understand modern piloting, and we will see if more women wind up participating.
Because sexism lives the most in places that are both rural, and in more physically-based professions. Things like mining are both.
These are men coming from isolated populations. They are often very sexist, in any profession. These are also guys who pin some of their masculinity in the hands-on work that they do. Therefore, they are much more sexist against women trying to gain footing in those fields.
It is not a matter of women only excelling in "all the lucrative fields." Women are actually very underrepresented in both higher-level business positions, and in politics.
Women occupy a lot of lower paying jobs, like service industries.
But the thing about those fields is that they don't have the rural insularity or the machismo of something like mining. Women are safer in those environments.
Why didn't MEN raise awareness for women's health issues?
Can you name me one rights movement in all of time that hasn't been started by the affected population?
This point is nothing but whining to put the responsibility on someone other than yourselves. The reason it doesn't get raised is because men don't raise it.
Although as I've already shown, there ARE women working on men's health issues, even as men continue to resist it.
That is BS. Women are poorer and less represented in government. They are not "the most influential group." That title still goes to rich middle-aged white men.
Women do care. But at the end of the day, we can't do it for you. You have to do it for yourselves.
And this internet-based, rant blogging, misogyny circle that is the majority of the MRA "movement" is not going to get you anywhere.
You need to find reasonable people who are willing to do things in the real world.
Yup, and guess what. If you wanna fix this, and make parenting roles more well-balanced, guess who you need to work with? Feminists. Because it's non-feminists, or half-baked, name-only hypocritical feminists, who perpetuate this type of family.
No, they haven't. Almost nothing about fringe feminism has ever gained much traction in the mainstream.
Fringe feminism does not perpetuate "traditional roles." Do you look at what you're writing? It doesn't even make any sense.
Look. Here's what you're complaining about. And it's a valid complaint, if only you would stop making up ridiculous narratives for it and mis-attributing it to non-existent things.
You are complaining about the present bypass in culture that is a result of the mixture of feminism and patriarchy, as society slowly advances towards gender equality.
It is inevitable that this transition won't go entirely smoothly. It is inevitable that the mixture of more women's rights and remnants of patriarchy will sometimes cause profound, compounded disadvantages.
Let's take the example of divorce.
Feminism has resulted in women having more freedom to remove themselves from unhealthy relationships.
At the same time, remants of patriarchy in the legal system have put men at a unique disadvantage in terms of custody rights and alimony.
When these two things come together at the same time, the result is a compounded disadvantage for men.
However, it is not caused by "feminism." It is caused by the incomplete transition from patriarchy to feminism, where women have more rights, but are still considered "helpless."
This is a problem that a LOT of feminists recognize and work to correct, even though it isn't really their fault. It's just an unavoidable bump in the road during the social transition, which will probably take a couple centuries to fully complete.
Do you see the point I'm making, here?
SmokeAndMirrors
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I don't get into relationships based on using poon as a currency, or various methods of exercising control over the other side. I tend to date men who are more intelligent than that, and have more respect for themselves than that.
I don't call people stupid, but I AM calling the argument stupid. There's a difference between those two things.
Women don't discourage men from seeing the doctor. Men discourage men from seeing the doctor.
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Because they choose not to take care of themselves by going to see the doctor, is not the fault of women and women go to war (Representative Tammy Duckworth lost her legs flying a helicopter in Iraq) are in police and fire departments all over this country.