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Would we be better off had the Cold War continued to this day?

Would we be better off had the Cold War continued to this day?


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Canell

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The Cold War ended some 22 years ago. But are we better off as individuals and as societies? :peace
 
I suspect most people who lived under Communist rule will say that they're much better off today. And I agree. Europe no longer is divided, but united in peace and freedom. Hopefully, the current economic crisis will not change that.

But I'm a bit worried about the new NATO/Russia antagonism. It might well become a problem again on the long run. Maybe the unique chance was missed in the early 90s to build a new global security structure including Russia, via OSCE and such organizations. Instead, the West has returned to a roll-back policy towards Russia. Don't really know enough about the details, so I'm not sure if missing this opportunity was the right thing to do, due to Russia's behavior, or if the West needlessly played away this opportunity.

If economic crisis worsens, shakes up the West and makes the EU decompose, Russia might well feel to fill that vaccuum again. Hope this won't happen. We'll know in a few years or decades.
 
The Cold War ended some 22 years ago. But are we better off as individuals and as societies? :peace

interesting question ...and probably no easy answer.

the answer will depend .... some material I have seen indicates that once the cold war was over and there was no need to compete against the USSR for hearts and minds ... in some parts of the developing world, so despite both sides manipulating these regions for their own ends during the cold war, at the end they were faced with indifference. with the legacy of colonialism and cold war rivalries, this contributed to "failed state" scenarios, and new types of wars.

Had the cold war continued, would Afghanistan have been left to fester, providing a haven for terrorists to use as a base?

how might Somalia be today? what about some of the other states in Africa where Islamism (ie political Islam) is on the rise?

Latin America - or at least those countries where internal politics was influenced by the US's desire to stamp out communism, have now become better off, on average. but would argentina and chile have suffered so much without this kind of interference?

When I travelled extensively in Eastern Europe a few years ago, I often met older people who said they were better off before ... and in many places I could see the poverty, so perhaps they were ... many young people seemed desperate to migrate because they saw less opportunity in their own countries. BUT ... they could. unlike my friend who had defected, and who had been unable to return and see her family for decades. Also, while there was incredible poverty, there was also a lot of money, and many seemed to be doing well. Even ordinary people seemed quite comfortable. but for others, the reality of life was also one where there was higher crime rates, greater homelessness, and for many women, prostitution had become the means to earn a living.

In the west ... we don't fear MAD .... but we have had terrorist attacks and developed a fear of a new enemy, and our nations have been involved with long drawn out wars just as they had been during the cold war.

the economy ... probably better, although since the end of the cold war, there has been a greater divergence in income in the west - which to my mind is a bad thing. I am not sure that this isn't somehow related to the absence of a viable "other" economic model - even if it wasn't one we hoped to emulate, it may have helped to keep our excesses in check.

as an individual I cannot say which aspects of my life may be better due to other things, rather than the end of the cold war other than that I would have found it difficult - or impossible - to visit some of the places I have been had the cold war continued.
 
Well, these poll results are indication of a kind of nostalgia, but probably not exactly an indication they actually want the GDR back. There are other polls that show 90%+ of the east Germans agree that it's good the Berlin Wall fell and Germany was reunited.

Idk, I've heard many arguments for and against life during the Cold War. For example:

Cold War Pros compared to now:

- simple and predictable life;
- well known enemy (unlike terrorism);
- jobs and low unemployment;
- lower crime rate;
- space race;
- lower income gap between classes;
- good music;
- less alienation;
- etc;

Nowadays Pros compared to Cold War:

- lower nuclear threat;
- flat TVs and computers. Lower MPG in cars. Technology in general;
- International tourism;
- cheap Chinese goods with good quality;
- etc;

May be you can add to the list. :)
 
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Idk, I've heard many arguments for and against life during the Cold War. For example:

Cold War Pros compared to now:

- simple and predictable life;
- well known enemy (unlike terrorism);
- jobs and low unemployment;
- lower crime rate;
- space race;
- lower income gap between classes;
- good music;
- less alienation;
- etc;

Nowadays Pros compared to Cold War:

- lower nuclear threat;
- flat TVs and computers. Lower MPG in cars. Technology in general;
- International tourism;
- cheap Chinese goods with good quality;
- etc;

May be you can add to the list. :)

some people I spoke to said there was more a sense of family and community - mind you I saw more of that than what we often see here anyway!
 
Idk, I've heard many arguments for and against life during the Cold War. For example:

Cold War Pros compared to now:

- simple and predictable life;
- well known enemy (unlike terrorism);
- jobs and low unemployment;
- lower crime rate;
- space race;
- lower income gap between classes;
- good music;
- less alienation;
- etc;

Nowadays Pros compared to Cold War:

- lower nuclear threat;
- flat TVs and computers. Lower MPG in cars. Technology in general;
- International tourism;
- cheap Chinese goods with good quality;
- etc;

May be you can add to the list. :)

I think most of the "pros" you listed are more the expression of a general nostalgia for the times back then, than things that were better *because* of the Cold War.

I mean sure, if you want to be nostalgic about 70s music, be my guest, as I perfectly understand that. But I don't think the music was better in the 70s *because* of the Cold War. ;)
 
I think most of the "pros" you listed are more the expression of a general nostalgia for the times back then, than things that were better *because* of the Cold War.

I mean sure, if you want to be nostalgic about 70s music, be my guest, as I perfectly understand that. But I don't think the music was better in the 70s *because* of the Cold War. ;)

I think that's part of how I see it ... I'm old enough to think things were better in the "good old days" anyway, so if older people in eastern Europe think it was better back then .... are they viewing the past through rose coloured glasses, as I no doubt have a tendency to do, or is their perspective based on accurate recall?
 
I think that's part of how I see it ... I'm old enough to think things were better in the "good old days" anyway, so if older people in eastern Europe think it was better back then .... are they viewing the past through rose coloured glasses, as I no doubt have a tendency to do, or is their perspective based on accurate recall?

I think this exactly is the case when it comes to many East Germans. A general nostalgia for subjectively simpler times, when they were still young, enjoyed their youth, and their spouse was not gone to the West yet to marry a Westener. ;)
 
I think this exactly is the case when it comes to many East Germans. A general nostalgia for subjectively simpler times, when they were still young, enjoyed their youth, and their spouse was not gone to the West yet to marry a Westener. ;)

LOLS and people of my generation talk about how much easier and simpler life was in the sixties and seventies, but how much of it was really about being at a stage of life where the world is before you, rather than it REALLY being better?
 
I think this exactly is the case when it comes to many East Germans. A general nostalgia for subjectively simpler times, when they were still young, enjoyed their youth, and their spouse was not gone to the West yet to marry a Westener. ;)

Or they just miss the time when they had (stable) jobs, there were no bank bailouts and people were more ... humane? :wink2:
 
LOLS and people of my generation talk about how much easier and simpler life was in the sixties and seventies, but how much of it was really about being at a stage of life where the world is before you, rather than it REALLY being better?

Well, there are "losers of reunification" too, of course, who are probably doing worse now than in the GDR. First of all the communist intelligentsia, of course, which lost their profitable jobs. Than many of the people who lacked the necessary skills and initiative to make a good life in a capitalist system (yeah, I know, many Americans call even the new Germany "socialist", but I don't think they know what they're talking about) -- in the GDR, even if there was no productive use for you, the government would give you some superficial job and pay you, give you an apartment and so on. Now, you have to look out for your life all on your own -- even applying for welfare is a bureaucratic procedure that apparently is difficult for some. And then, you have to constantly look out for jobs if you don't want to lose your handouts ...

Another fact that probably skews these statistics a little is that many of the more flexible and energetic Easteners have already left their home regions to look for jobs. IIRC, 2 to 3 million out of 17 million East Germans have left the East to move to the West in the past two decades. So in many eastern regions, those who remain are the less flexible and more nostalgic people.
 
Or they just miss the time when they had (stable) jobs, there were no bank bailouts and people were more ... humane? :wink2:

Yes. And think of the psychological impact of freedom of speech: Suddenly, you don't just hear constant propaganda how everything is going up, up and up ... instead the bad facts are no longer hidden, but discussed in public. The "post-authoritarian phantom pain" makes many people think that means there now actually *is* more crime, corruption, abuse of authority and disagreement -- while in reality, it probably was even much worse, just hidden better ...

You noticed the same "post-authoritarian phantom pain" in West-Germany too: Up to the late 1960s, a majority of West-Germans would still say in polls that "Nazism was a good idea, just poorly executed" (50%+).
 
Yes. And think of the psychological impact of freedom of speech.

I take the West into consideration too. There was practically no change in freedom of speech in BRD, Spain, UK, Italy, Greece... and yet if you ask the armies of unemployed protestors in Spain or Greece, they would probably choose the Cold War when real estate was priced reasonably and kids didn't stay in front of the computer all day long or play video games.
 
I really, really miss those *duck and cover* drills. :cool:

Seriously, did the CW actually end or was it just renamed?

(much of today's 'continuity of government* protocols, weapons and equipment are from the Cold War era)
 
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The Cold War ended some 22 years ago. But are we better off as individuals and as societies? :peace

Yes and idk. Yes we are better off without the Cold War. We don't have to live with the threat that next minute could be the last of us on this Earth. The "idk" comes from whether or not the people under Soviet rule are happy or not...which is a different matter.
 
I really, really miss those *duck and cover* drills. :cool:

Seriously, did the CW actually end or was it just renamed?

(much of today's 'continuity of government* protocols, weapons and equipment are from the Cold War era)

Renamed to what, "hot peace"? :lol:
 
Renamed to what, "hot peace"? :lol:

LOL. we be closer to the actual description than you think.

IMO, the 'fear' factor' was in place so the everyday details went underground. It takes countries like Iran and NK to bring it back out in the open.
 
no. we would have been better off if we had issued a doctrine of non-interventionism the second it ended. then the world would have had to build and fund its own military force for police actions.
 
No we wouldn't. We would, however, be better off if it ended more evenly
 
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