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"Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

Criminal Immigrant vs Illegal Immigrant


  • Total voters
    27
I don't have a problem with using the term "Illegal" but I have a problem with using the term "immigrant" because under U.S. law and international law these illegal aliens are not "immigrants."

IMMIGRATION:

Immigration by definition is the legal process of an immigrant openly, honestly and with the consent of the government immigrates from ones native land to another sovereign country with the intent of permanent residence.

Under U.S. statue, anyone who is not a U.S. citizen is an alien. Be they in the country with a tourist visa, work visa, business visa or immigrant visa they all are aliens.

Anyone who allows their visa to expire or enters the country illegally without a visa is an Illegal Alien.

There is one other term that can be found in U.S. statue to use instead of "illegal alien", "Unauthorized alien."
 
The one that I actually prefer most of all is "Undocumented Immigrant." It does not label the person as illegal or criminal, simply that they lack documentation.

It suggests more of a clerical mistake than a legal status, though. I like Maggie's answer. We should reserve words like criminal for violence, or acts that harm a lot of people. People running away from Mexico to come here are unauthorized. That's the best word to use.
 
We lure them up here with jobs...then we want to throw them in jail and call them names. Gramatically correct names, but still.

I think there is just something wrong with this whole damn country. Just a thought.
 
An interesting idea occurred to me. The argument against the term "illegal immigrant" that has the most merit is that it is grammatically incorrect. I know that some people disagree, but their disagreement is irrelvent to this thread (so I am asking people to please refrain from ****ing up this thread by trying to defend or attack the term "illegal immigrant"). This thread is about whether or not people find the undeniably grammatically accurate term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative to "illegal immigrant".

Please vote in the poll. The options are:

I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I do NOT support the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find the term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I do NOT support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", and I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

Other

I prefer Unlawful Alien.
 
We lure them up here with jobs...then we want to throw them in jail and call them names. Gramatically correct names, but still.

I think there is just something wrong with this whole damn country. Just a thought.

They knew it was unlawful to come here. I have no sympathy.
 
Illegal entry into the country is indeed criminal because a first offense can get you six months in jail which is a misdemeanor criminal offense and additional offenses can get you two years in jail which is a felony criminal offense. As far as I know overstaying a visa is not a criminal offense but merely a civil offense since you only face fines and deportation and can not go to jail or prison over it(I could be wrong on this part so if anyone knows anything please corrent me and post the relavant information). While most illegals are those who came across the border illegally and therefore are criminals, there are some who came here legally on a visa and overstaying their visa are not criminals. The term criminal aliens/immigrant does not distinguish those who are here illegally and those who are here legally and have committed a crime. Nor does it cover illegals who are here because they came in legally and overstayed their visa. So I will stick to "illegals", "illegal immigrants" or illegal aliens".


Illegal Immigration IS A CRIME!
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.

Why the hell would their status as an immigrant come into play with any other crime than immigration crimes? There's no logical explanation for using the term Criminal Immigrant in any other context than illegal immigration. If someone s a legal immigrant, and they subsequently commit a crime, the only accurate term to describe them is "criminal". Mentioning their status as an immigrant in that context is just a display of bigotry against immigrants. "Criminal" doesn't describe the noun of "immigrant" unless it is related to the crime they committed to become an immigrant.
 
Criminal and illegal are basically synonyms here.

How about "unauthorized immigrant"?

I like the old term better. Unlawful alien.
 
I prefer Unlawful Alien.

Interesting. Unless I'm wrong in my application, a human being can be "unlawful" according to the definition of "not conforming to the law". That would make it grammatically correct. Maggie called me out earlier for making a mistake, so let me see if she concurs with my interpretation. That might be much better than Criminal Immigrant, though.
 
An interesting idea occurred to me. The argument against the term "illegal immigrant" that has the most merit is that it is grammatically incorrect. I know that some people disagree, but their disagreement is irrelvent to this thread (so I am asking people to please refrain from ****ing up this thread by trying to defend or attack the term "illegal immigrant"). This thread is about whether or not people find the undeniably grammatically accurate term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative to "illegal immigrant".

Please vote in the poll. The options are:

I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I do NOT support the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find the term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I do NOT support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", and I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

Other

I'm fine with using criminal instead. I want the term to signify that they came illegally. I don't care if anyone complains that they find it offensive. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about something you want. I'd argue that the vast majority of those crossing the border or overstaying their welcome know they are breaking the rules.
 
Interesting. Unless I'm wrong in my application, a human being can be "unlawful" according to the definition of "not conforming to the law". That would make it grammatically correct. Maggie called me out earlier for making a mistake, so let me see if she concurs with my interpretation. That might be much better than Criminal Immigrant, though.

That's what the intruders used to be called or illegal alien. Either one.
 
When a person is referred to as an immigrant, that defines a particular element of the person. Illegal simply points out the fact that they came here, in this case, illegally. I have no problem with the term, but I do have a problem with this constant redefinition of every damn thing to suit this group or that. When you get right down to it, the only people who are here completely legally are Native Americans. Let's ask them.
 
That's what the intruders used to be called or illegal alien. Either one.

I'm more concerned with the grammatical accuracy of the terms for the purposes of this thread. A person cannot be illegal, but they can be unlawful.
 
Why the hell would their status as an immigrant come into play with any other crime than immigration crimes?

Because they are an immigrant who has committed a crime.


There's no logical explanation for using the term Criminal Immigrant in any other context than illegal immigration.
Its already been explained to you.

If someone s a legal immigrant, and they subsequently commit a crime, the only accurate term to describe them is "criminal".

Criminal immigrant is accurate because it describes a immigrant that has committed a crime.It doesn't matter if that immigrant is an illegal that overstayed a visa who has committed a criminal offense or a legal immigrant that has committed a criminal offense.


Mentioning their status as an immigrant in that context is just a display of bigotry against immigrants.
No its not.Not all immigrants are criminals. Criminal immigrants refers to immigrants who have committed crimes.



"Criminal" doesn't describe the noun of "immigrant" unless it is related to the crime they committed to become an immigrant.

So you are playing grammar fag/nazi because your feelings get butt hurt when someone uses the term illegal,illegal immigrant, or illegal alien?
 
I want the term to signify that they came illegally.

Wouldn't any term used to describe them do this? I mean, we could call them Flugthrons, and if the definition of that word was "A person who immigrates to a country illegally", it would signify that they came here illegally.

So, with that in mind, would you have a problem calling them Flugthrons (provided it received that definition)?
 
Because they are an immigrant who has committed a crime.

So if a black person commits a crime, you call them a Criminal Black?


Its already been explained to you.


Keyword there: Logical.


I was clear about the fact that there is no LOGICAL explanation. I didn't say that there weren't any illogical ones. Obviously there are illogical ones.

Criminal immigrant is accurate because it describes a immigrant that has committed a crime.

Like criminal negro would be an accurate description of, say, OJ Simpson, right?

It doesn't matter if that immigrant is an illegal that overstayed a visa who has committed a criminal offense or a legal immigrant that has committed a criminal offense.

You've got it exactly backwards. It doesn't matter if the criminal is an immigrant if their crime has nothing to do with immigration.



No its not.Not all immigrants are criminals. Criminal immigrants refers to immigrants who have committed crimes.

Like how criminal white refers to someone like Bernie Madoff, right?




So you are playing grammar fag/nazi because your feelings get butt hurt when someone uses the term illegal,illegal immigrant, or illegal alien?

What a phenomenally retarded comment to make. where did you get such a phenomenally stupid idea from?
 
Wouldn't any term used to describe them do this? I mean, we could call them Flugthrons, and if the definition of that word was "A person who immigrates to a country illegally", it would signify that they came here illegally.

So, with that in mind, would you have a problem calling them Flugthrons (provided it received that definition)?

No, I don't want a word made up. In fact, that's only more likely to make them claim it's a term to degrade them and people can't directly infer from the term what the heck a Flugthron is. Illegal and criminal are words straight from the English dictionary. Compounded with the word immigrant, it's pretty intuitive why someone would be called such.
 
No, I don't want a word made up.

Any term for them was made up at some point. For example, the noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. Do you have a problem with that one?

In fact, that's only more likely to make them claim it's a term to degrade them and people can't directly infer from the term what the heck a Flugthron is.

How for the first part, why for the second? Why are you emotionally invested with the terminology being overt?

Illegal and criminal are words straight from the English dictionary. Compounded with the word immigrant, it's pretty intuitive why someone would be called such.

But illegal is an adjective which cannot be used to describe a person. And as was pointed out earlier, the adjective version of Criminal also cannot be used to describe a person. Isn't the most logical choice then to create a new term which does describe the person in a grammatically accurate fashion?
 
I guess that would kind of make sense.

If someone enters a property they don't have legal entry into, they wouldn't be an "illegal tresspasser" they'd be a "criminal tresspasser". So an immigrant entering the country illegally could be a criminal immigrant....

I kind of see where yo'ure going with this. I don't really haev an issue with illegal immigrant being the term however because while it may be grammatically incorrect in a technical sense, I think it works in a more casual lexicon sort of way as the impression and implication of the use "illegal" is seemingly no different than that of "criminal".
 
An interesting idea occurred to me. The argument against the term "illegal immigrant" that has the most merit is that it is grammatically incorrect. I know that some people disagree, but their disagreement is irrelvent to this thread (so I am asking people to please refrain from ****ing up this thread by trying to defend or attack the term "illegal immigrant"). This thread is about whether or not people find the undeniably grammatically accurate term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative to "illegal immigrant".

Please vote in the poll. The options are:

I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I do NOT support the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find the term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

I do NOT support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", and I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

Other

I don't get hung up on labels, nor am I so PC I want to control the language(irony alert: people on both sides are trying to do this with this whole debate), and the AP is perfectly within their rights to call them whatever they choose. As a top news organization(in terms of quantifiable success), they will probably call them whatever makes them the most money, which is exactly right from their standpoint.
 
Some other arguments in the thread swayyed me however...

I'd probably personally go with Illegal Alien.

Immigrant gives the impression that they are someone who has come here to live permanently...which I don't believe is a reasonable assumption if they've not come here in a legal fashion that at least makes that permanence a relative likelihood. Alien is suggesting they belong to a foreign country, which is actually the fact in this case becuase they don't "belong" to the United States.

Illegal works a bit better than Criminal because I think in the colloquial use of the word it gets the message across better. A "Criminal Alien" could be an alien here in an illegal fashion OR it could be an alien who is a criminal. Illegal Alien pretty clearly indicates in our current vernacular that the person status as an Alien within the country is what's Illegal. This seperates them from Aliens in the country in a legal sense.
 
Any term for them was made up at some point. For example, the noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. Do you have a problem with that one?

The term "illegal" was not made up to describe them. It was already in the English language and was chosen as a shortened form of saying they illegally immigrated.

How for the first part, why for the second? Why are you emotionally invested with the terminology being overt?

How's the term wetback working out? I'll admit, I'm passionate about when people intentionally do crap that's illegal. Furthermore, I went through the long procedure of properly obtaining a green card for my wife when I married her.

But illegal is an adjective which cannot be used to describe a person. And as was pointed out earlier, the adjective version of Criminal also cannot be used to describe a person. Isn't the most logical choice then to create a new term which does describe the person in a grammatically accurate fashion?

Let's go with III="Illegally Immigrated Idiot". That's grammatically correct and there's no need for make up a new word. If you want to be picky, there are such things as compound nouns. Since a criminal and immigrant are both nouns, you don't have to be stuck on this whole adjective plus noun idea for coining the term.
 
I guess that would kind of make sense.

If someone trespassed into a house, they wouldn't be an "illegal tresspasser" they'd be a "criminal tresspasser" BECAUSE they were illegally entering a location.

So an immigrant entering the country illegally could be a criminal immigrant.

I kind of see where yo'ure going with this. I don't really haev an issue with illegal immigrant being the term however because while it may be grammatically incorrect in a technical sense, I think it works in a more casual lexicon sort of way as the impression and implication of the use "illegal" is seemingly no different than that of "criminal".

As I have said elsewhere today, personally I don't have a problem with the term Illegal immigrant" either (look and see what my answer to the poll was :lol:). I use the term "illegal" all the time, too. I'm sure some people get offended by it, but I don't care if they do or not. If they are dumb enough to ignore my stances on immigration and instead try to claim I'm demonizing illegals by using those words, **** em. I'll have fun with it.

But why would someone who is ardently opposed to anything resembling lighter treatment of illegals be married to using certain terminology when it distracts from their arguments and makes them look petty and bigoted? I don't get it. They shoot themselves in the foot by being overly attached to terminology that serves no logical purpose. Unauthorized Migrant, illegal immigrant, Flugthron? Who gives a ****? Seriously? why would anyone BUT people who are "pro illegal" give a **** what they are called at all? It doens't matter what you call them, the way they came here is still illegal.
 
The term "illegal" was not made up to describe them.

The noun version of th eword most certainly was invented to describe illegals. Illegal does not exist as a noun to describe anything else.

It was already in the English language and was chosen as a shortened form of saying they illegally immigrated.

Exactly. The noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. It did not exist until it was made up to do so.



How's the term wetback working out?

Works like **** for Micks, polacks, degos, chinks, etc. who come here illegally.

I'll admit, I'm passionate about when people intentionally do crap that's illegal.

Really? Are you passionate about people who jaywalk too? Speeding? slowly rolling through stop signs at 2 am?

Or are you exaggerating?

Furthermore, I went through the long procedure of properly obtaining a green card for my wife when I married her.

And it was a damned sight easier for you to do that than it would have been for her to do it without having married you. The laws are ****ed up in general.

Let's go with III="Illegally Immigrated Idiot".

But not all illegals are idiots. In fact, many are quite intelligent. Thus, it's not accurate.

That's grammatically correct and there's no need for make up a new word.

It's actually both inaccurate and poor grammar.

If you want to be picky, there are such things as compound nouns. Since a criminal and immigrant are both nouns, you don't have to be stuck on this whole adjective plus noun idea for coining the term.

That does help. Criminal Immigrant can be viewed as a compound noun. Thank you.
 
I'm more concerned with the grammatical accuracy of the terms for the purposes of this thread. A person cannot be illegal, but they can be unlawful.

Works for me.
 
The noun version of th eword most certainly was invented to describe illegals. Illegal does not exist as a noun to describe anything else.

Exactly. The noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. It did not exist until it was made up to do so.

Exactly, it came from a verb already in the dictionary, to describe them based on what they were doing. Logically, we often convert words to another part of speech for semantic purposes, especially when converting nouns to verbs.

Works like **** for Micks, polacks, degos, chinks, etc. who come here illegally.

It sounds like we already have a set of words, so why add another?

Really? Are you passionate about people who jaywalk too? Speeding? slowly rolling through stop signs at 2 am?

Or are you exaggerating?

My response is proportional to how much harm is done by such violation.

And it was a damned sight easier for you to do that than it would have been for her to do it without having married you. The laws are ****ed up in general.

It's completely reasonable that it should be easier if your spouse is American. There's a difference between a family member and someone not related to you just walking into your home (country)

But not all illegals are idiots. In fact, many are quite intelligent. Thus, it's not accurate.

It's actually both inaccurate and poor grammar.

Those stupid enough to make the choice to enter illegally are idiots.
 
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