View Poll Results: Criminal Immigrant vs Illegal Immigrant

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  • I agree with the term "Illegal Immigrant" and the term "Criminal Immigrant"

    12 38.71%
  • I agree with the term "Illegal Immigrant", but NOT the term "Criminal Immigrant"

    7 22.58%
  • I do NOT agree with the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do agree with "Criminal Immigrant"

    3 9.68%
  • I do NOT agree with the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant" NOR do I agree with "Criminal Immigrant"

    3 9.68%
  • Other

    6 19.35%
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Thread: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

  1. #41
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Wouldn't any term used to describe them do this? I mean, we could call them Flugthrons, and if the definition of that word was "A person who immigrates to a country illegally", it would signify that they came here illegally.

    So, with that in mind, would you have a problem calling them Flugthrons (provided it received that definition)?
    No, I don't want a word made up. In fact, that's only more likely to make them claim it's a term to degrade them and people can't directly infer from the term what the heck a Flugthron is. Illegal and criminal are words straight from the English dictionary. Compounded with the word immigrant, it's pretty intuitive why someone would be called such.
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    No, I don't want a word made up.
    Any term for them was made up at some point. For example, the noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. Do you have a problem with that one?

    In fact, that's only more likely to make them claim it's a term to degrade them and people can't directly infer from the term what the heck a Flugthron is.
    How for the first part, why for the second? Why are you emotionally invested with the terminology being overt?

    Illegal and criminal are words straight from the English dictionary. Compounded with the word immigrant, it's pretty intuitive why someone would be called such.
    But illegal is an adjective which cannot be used to describe a person. And as was pointed out earlier, the adjective version of Criminal also cannot be used to describe a person. Isn't the most logical choice then to create a new term which does describe the person in a grammatically accurate fashion?
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    I guess that would kind of make sense.

    If someone enters a property they don't have legal entry into, they wouldn't be an "illegal tresspasser" they'd be a "criminal tresspasser". So an immigrant entering the country illegally could be a criminal immigrant....

    I kind of see where yo'ure going with this. I don't really haev an issue with illegal immigrant being the term however because while it may be grammatically incorrect in a technical sense, I think it works in a more casual lexicon sort of way as the impression and implication of the use "illegal" is seemingly no different than that of "criminal".

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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    An interesting idea occurred to me. The argument against the term "illegal immigrant" that has the most merit is that it is grammatically incorrect. I know that some people disagree, but their disagreement is irrelvent to this thread (so I am asking people to please refrain from ****ing up this thread by trying to defend or attack the term "illegal immigrant"). This thread is about whether or not people find the undeniably grammatically accurate term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative to "illegal immigrant".

    Please vote in the poll. The options are:

    I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

    I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

    I do NOT support the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find the term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

    I do NOT support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", and I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.

    Other
    I don't get hung up on labels, nor am I so PC I want to control the language(irony alert: people on both sides are trying to do this with this whole debate), and the AP is perfectly within their rights to call them whatever they choose. As a top news organization(in terms of quantifiable success), they will probably call them whatever makes them the most money, which is exactly right from their standpoint.
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Some other arguments in the thread swayyed me however...

    I'd probably personally go with Illegal Alien.

    Immigrant gives the impression that they are someone who has come here to live permanently...which I don't believe is a reasonable assumption if they've not come here in a legal fashion that at least makes that permanence a relative likelihood. Alien is suggesting they belong to a foreign country, which is actually the fact in this case becuase they don't "belong" to the United States.

    Illegal works a bit better than Criminal because I think in the colloquial use of the word it gets the message across better. A "Criminal Alien" could be an alien here in an illegal fashion OR it could be an alien who is a criminal. Illegal Alien pretty clearly indicates in our current vernacular that the person status as an Alien within the country is what's Illegal. This seperates them from Aliens in the country in a legal sense.

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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Any term for them was made up at some point. For example, the noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. Do you have a problem with that one?
    The term "illegal" was not made up to describe them. It was already in the English language and was chosen as a shortened form of saying they illegally immigrated.

    How for the first part, why for the second? Why are you emotionally invested with the terminology being overt?
    How's the term wetback working out? I'll admit, I'm passionate about when people intentionally do crap that's illegal. Furthermore, I went through the long procedure of properly obtaining a green card for my wife when I married her.

    But illegal is an adjective which cannot be used to describe a person. And as was pointed out earlier, the adjective version of Criminal also cannot be used to describe a person. Isn't the most logical choice then to create a new term which does describe the person in a grammatically accurate fashion?
    Let's go with III="Illegally Immigrated Idiot". That's grammatically correct and there's no need for make up a new word. If you want to be picky, there are such things as compound nouns. Since a criminal and immigrant are both nouns, you don't have to be stuck on this whole adjective plus noun idea for coining the term.
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I guess that would kind of make sense.

    If someone trespassed into a house, they wouldn't be an "illegal tresspasser" they'd be a "criminal tresspasser" BECAUSE they were illegally entering a location.

    So an immigrant entering the country illegally could be a criminal immigrant.

    I kind of see where yo'ure going with this. I don't really haev an issue with illegal immigrant being the term however because while it may be grammatically incorrect in a technical sense, I think it works in a more casual lexicon sort of way as the impression and implication of the use "illegal" is seemingly no different than that of "criminal".
    As I have said elsewhere today, personally I don't have a problem with the term Illegal immigrant" either (look and see what my answer to the poll was ). I use the term "illegal" all the time, too. I'm sure some people get offended by it, but I don't care if they do or not. If they are dumb enough to ignore my stances on immigration and instead try to claim I'm demonizing illegals by using those words, **** em. I'll have fun with it.

    But why would someone who is ardently opposed to anything resembling lighter treatment of illegals be married to using certain terminology when it distracts from their arguments and makes them look petty and bigoted? I don't get it. They shoot themselves in the foot by being overly attached to terminology that serves no logical purpose. Unauthorized Migrant, illegal immigrant, Flugthron? Who gives a ****? Seriously? why would anyone BUT people who are "pro illegal" give a **** what they are called at all? It doens't matter what you call them, the way they came here is still illegal.
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    The term "illegal" was not made up to describe them.
    The noun version of th eword most certainly was invented to describe illegals. Illegal does not exist as a noun to describe anything else.

    It was already in the English language and was chosen as a shortened form of saying they illegally immigrated.
    Exactly. The noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. It did not exist until it was made up to do so.



    How's the term wetback working out?
    Works like **** for Micks, polacks, degos, chinks, etc. who come here illegally.

    I'll admit, I'm passionate about when people intentionally do crap that's illegal.
    Really? Are you passionate about people who jaywalk too? Speeding? slowly rolling through stop signs at 2 am?

    Or are you exaggerating?

    Furthermore, I went through the long procedure of properly obtaining a green card for my wife when I married her.
    And it was a damned sight easier for you to do that than it would have been for her to do it without having married you. The laws are ****ed up in general.

    Let's go with III="Illegally Immigrated Idiot".
    But not all illegals are idiots. In fact, many are quite intelligent. Thus, it's not accurate.

    That's grammatically correct and there's no need for make up a new word.
    It's actually both inaccurate and poor grammar.

    If you want to be picky, there are such things as compound nouns. Since a criminal and immigrant are both nouns, you don't have to be stuck on this whole adjective plus noun idea for coining the term.
    That does help. Criminal Immigrant can be viewed as a compound noun. Thank you.
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm more concerned with the grammatical accuracy of the terms for the purposes of this thread. A person cannot be illegal, but they can be unlawful.
    Works for me.
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    Re: "Criminal Immigrant" instead of "Illegal Immigrant"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The noun version of th eword most certainly was invented to describe illegals. Illegal does not exist as a noun to describe anything else.

    Exactly. The noun "illegal" was made up to describe them. It did not exist until it was made up to do so.
    Exactly, it came from a verb already in the dictionary, to describe them based on what they were doing. Logically, we often convert words to another part of speech for semantic purposes, especially when converting nouns to verbs.

    Works like **** for Micks, polacks, degos, chinks, etc. who come here illegally.
    It sounds like we already have a set of words, so why add another?

    Really? Are you passionate about people who jaywalk too? Speeding? slowly rolling through stop signs at 2 am?

    Or are you exaggerating?
    My response is proportional to how much harm is done by such violation.

    And it was a damned sight easier for you to do that than it would have been for her to do it without having married you. The laws are ****ed up in general.
    It's completely reasonable that it should be easier if your spouse is American. There's a difference between a family member and someone not related to you just walking into your home (country)

    But not all illegals are idiots. In fact, many are quite intelligent. Thus, it's not accurate.

    It's actually both inaccurate and poor grammar.
    Those stupid enough to make the choice to enter illegally are idiots.
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