View Poll Results: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

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  • Yes

    61 65.59%
  • No

    21 22.58%
  • Other

    11 11.83%
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Thread: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I was thinking a couple years in a reserve Guard unit. It's not a chunk out of your life unless you get deployed.
    It was not an opinion piece. But here's my government proof.

    FBI — Terrorism 2002/2005

    There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

    The FBI further describes terrorism as either domestic or international, depending on the origin, base, and objectives of the terrorist organization. For the purpose of this report, the FBI will use the following definitions:

    Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States or Puerto Rico without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives.
    International terrorism involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any state, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any state. These acts appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping. International terrorist acts occur outside the United States or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.

    The FBI Divides Terrorist-Related Activities into Two Categories:

    A terrorist incident is a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, in violation of the criminal laws of the United States, or of any state, to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
    A terrorism prevention is a documented instance in which a violent act by a known or suspected terrorist group or individual with the means and a proven propensity for violence is successfully interdicted through investigative activity.

    Note: The FBI investigates terrorism-related matters without regard to race, religion, national origin, or gender. Reference to individual members of any political, ethnic, or religious group in this report is not meant to imply that all members of that group are terrorists. Terrorists represent a small criminal minority in any larger social context.
    Militia Members Charged in Plot to Kill Police Officers - WSJ.com

    ADRIAN, Mich.—Nine members of an anti-government militia group were charged Monday with conspiring to kill a law-enforcement officer in an effort to start a "war" against the U.S. government, authorities said.

    The group, known as Hutaree, planned to kill an unidentified local law-enforcement officer in April and then attack local, state and federal officers who came to Michigan to attend the funeral, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan said in a 12-page indictment.

    Seven members of an anti-government militia group were arraigned in federal court here, charged with conspiring to kill a law-enforcement official in hopes of starting a "war" against the U.S. government. WSJ's Neal Boudette reports from Detroit.

    Seven members of the group were arraigned in federal court in Detroit, one was arraigned in Federal court in the Northern District of Indiana and the last person was arrested Monday night. Those arraigned were ordered held without bond until further hearings this week. Federal agents made the arrests after weekend raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.

    The indictment said Hutaree, a small, armed militia group based in rural southeast Michigan, had practiced attacks and other military maneuvers for more than a year, and had planned to use homemade bombs like those used against U.S. forces by insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bombs were the key part of the alleged plot to attack the funeral of a law-enforcement officer, the indictment said.
    From 2010

    Election, economy spark explosive growth of militias - U.S. News

    The election of President Barack Obama in 2008 triggered an explosion in the number of militias and so-called patriot groups in the United States, the Southern Poverty Law Center reported in its annual tally of such anti-government organizations.

    There were 149 militias and patriot groups when Obama took office, compared to more than 1,200 today — an increase of 755 percent, the nonprofit civil rights organization reported.

    "The increase has just been astounding," said Mark Potok, editor-in-chief of the SPLC report. "The reality is that many of these groups are becoming more and more fearful that Barack Obama will win the re-election. You can see the anger rising along with that fear."

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    The SPLC defines the "patriot" movement as made up of conspiracy-minded individuals who see the federal government as their primary enemy. The movement includes paramilitary militias as well as groups of "sovereign citizens," who believe they are not subject to federal or state laws, nor obligated to pay federal taxes, according to SPLC.

    The center also reports a steady rise in the number of hate groups in America — from 604 in 2000, to more than 1,000 last year. Those include anti-gay groups, anti-Muslim groups, black separatists and "Christian Identity" groups, which hold racist and anti-Semitic views that overlap with neo-Nazi beliefs.
    They are not legal organizations when they want to take out the government. They have no rights to bear military style weapons.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  2. #92
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Civilian militia doesn't need your green light. Who died and made you King anyway?


    Sure they do. If they are listed under the FBI list of terrorists organizations, they are illegal. THAT who is the KING. No?
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  3. #93
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Only because you think that way, it's dangerous maybe to your status quo possibly, maybe, under certain situations. But "subversive and dangerous to our society"? Hell, freedom is subversive and dangerous to our society, but I'd rather be free. So I guess in a free Republic there is a certain amount of subversive danger which must be accepted and shouldered.
    It's not freedom to shoot policemen. It's not freedom to ambush officers. No one is accepting the killing of our police force and no one is accepting the sale of guns without background checks on EVERY sale, and the building of federal mental health facilities for wing nuts so paranoid they see their government out to get them and can only think of arming themselves to solve the situation.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  4. #94
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Sure they do. If they are listed under the FBI list of terrorists organizations, they are illegal. THAT who is the KING. No?
    So the government randomly defines someone as X, and it's fine with ya huh? Guess you don't mind all the prearrests that happen before the DNC and GOP conventions these days. The restriction to "free speech zones", I mean these people are dangerous.



    The government will label anything that threatens its power, justly or unjustly, as "terrorists" because it gives them breadth of "law" to do whatever they want to those folk. And ignorant sheep will go about their day thinking it's ok to allow for no defense of the individual, or requiring proof on part of the government beyond the government made and proclaimed definition. I see you are the fan of the Catch-22.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #95
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Sure they do. If they are listed under the FBI list of terrorists organizations, they are illegal. THAT who is the KING. No?

    We don't have a King. The Militia saw to that.

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #96
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And that's the true danger. Not some patriots pledging themselves to the defense of freedom, but the unchecked power of the government. There is no greater "terrorist" force.
    How is the power of the government "unchecked"? How old are you?
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  7. #97
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    It's not freedom to shoot policemen.
    Under certain conditions, it is certainly defense of liberty and freedom however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    It's not freedom to ambush officers.
    Depends on circumstance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    No one is accepting the killing of our police force and no one is accepting the sale of guns without background checks on EVERY sale, and the building of federal mental health facilities for wing nuts so paranoid they see their government out to get them and can only think of arming themselves to solve the situation.
    Police are government employees and if one is pissed at the government and looking to elicit change through violence, they are valid target. Revolt, armed revolt, is a right of the People for when government grows too aggressively against our rights and liberties. The whole of the Republic is founded on this principle.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #98
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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    We don't have a King. The Militia saw to that.
    Not quite true. You have laws..those are the kings in this nation. And killing police violates those laws and negates ANY definition of freedom fighter attached to militia groups.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Under certain conditions, it is certainly defense of liberty and freedom however.



    Depends on circumstance.



    Police are government employees and if one is pissed at the government and looking to elicit change through violence, they are valid target. Revolt, armed revolt, is a right of the People for when government grows too aggressively against our rights and liberties. The whole of the Republic is founded on this principle.
    Oh, I get it. You're a "Sons of Anarchy" kinda guy whose definition of his sexual abilities is through the size of his gun. You really can't believe what you say, or you're not old enough to have voted more than once.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Is the right to bear arms a civil right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    How is the power of the government "unchecked"? How old are you?
    When they no longer fear the People. When the election cycles are rigged such that only Republocrats can win, when government expands its powers through things such as TSA, the Patriot Act, HLS, etc to infringe upon the rights and liberties of the individual. When defeatists cry out that we shouldn't even fight, that we shouldn't even have the chance of fighting; thus attempting to remove the final check. That is how government becomes unchecked. Are you stupid?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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