View Poll Results: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant one?

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    19 27.14%
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Thread: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

  1. #211
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    So this really has nothing to do with inter-racial marriages. Since it is the United States basically leading the way with gay marriages I wouldn't say were are that socially backward of other industrialized nations. Wills can take care of inheritance, they always have. Tax time, ah, benefits. I always find it strange these discussions always lead to benefits instead of love. If it weren't for Wilson and the income tax, FDR and SS, and on and on, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?
    You can't be forced to testify against your spouse, either. There are MANY exceptions in the law that spouses are granted and other couples aren't. Why should I have to write a will just to make sure my wife gets my possessions after I die? Oh, that's right, I don't have to do that, it's the default position, isn't it? Why should I have to sign documents to let my wife make medical decisions if I'm incapacitated? Oh, that's right, I don't have to do that, it's the default position, isn't it? How many other examples would you like before you recognize how pervasive the laws are when it comes to marriage? I thought you were smarter than this. Get rid of these and ALL the others not mentioned - including all the common laws and proceeding legal decisions (they also define the law) and there won't be an issue anymore. Good luck with that.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-02-13 at 11:08 PM.
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  2. #212
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I don't mind that, I can see where he would think it is in the same ball park. But inter-racial marriage has been around probably from almost the beginning of time or at least when man first learned how to walk and left Africa. Gay marriage hasn't, at least that I know of or I haven't read anything that said it was. Many famous leaders throughout history were homosexuals, but none of them married another homosexual. At least that I heard of.

    DD is fine, no name calling. I believe the debate should continue, that gay marriages should be decided state by state since it is such a new phenomena. I have no problem with it. I just do not think it is a civil right issue, if i did I would be on their band wagon. Changing thousands of years of tradition and custom as to what is marriage is not something to just jump in head first. Now if my state of Georgia recognizes gay marriage, I am on board, if they don't, then that too as of this moment is okay with me.
    You are right about inter racial marriage. Hell I am even in one. That said when someone uses the same line for 4 or 5 years it gets very old and stale........You are new here, you will find out.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  3. #213
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You can't be forced to testify against your spouse, either. There are MANY exceptions in the law that spouses are granted and other couples aren't. Why should I have to write a will just to make sure my wife gets my possessions after I die? Oh, that's right, I don't have to do that, it's the default position, isn't it? Why should I have to sign documents to let my wife make medical decisions if I'm incapacitated? Oh, that's right, I don't have to do that, it's the default position, isn't it? How many other examples would you like before you recognize how pervasive the laws are when it comes to marriage? I thought you were smarter than this. Get rid of these and ALL the others not mentioned - including all the common laws and proceeding legal decisions (they also define the law) and there won't be an issue anymore. Good luck with that.
    Perhaps now it is, I don't know as I haven't research it. I know I drew up a living will just in case, I have a will for my other things. Tax laws are written to encourage certain behavior the government wants of us. Wills have been the way things has been passed down and intentions known for centuries, they are nothing new. I am sure in the common law era, wills was about the only way to go as there were no default positions.

    As I said, I do not see this as a civil rights issue. If the SCOTUS sees it that way, I'll be fine with that and unlike abortion, if they do I hope it is by a 7-2, 8-1 or even 9-0 decision. Heck, the abortion verdict came down in 1973 by a 5-4 decision and it is still being fought. I think the SCOTUS will punt on prop 8, that will give it back to the 9th circuit court which has already ruled the ban unconstitutional and California will become the 10th state where gays can be legally married.

    As for DOMA, I had thought it to be unconstitutional also. Until someone pointed out that it basically only deals with federal benefits and congress is the body that decides who receives them or not. The thing to remember is prop 8 only deals with California, so however the SCOTUS decides, California will be the only state affected. DOMA covers all 50 states and gives cover to the states that do not recognize gay marriages. It is here where the SCOTUS ruling could effect the entire nation. But even if the SCOTUS punts or upholds DOMA, gay marriage is taking effect in state after state, abet slowly, but it is getting there. Perhaps a bit of patience can subdue the rancor that followed the abortion rule. To me it would be well worth it. To gays, that may not be the case. Time will tell.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  4. #214
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You are right about inter racial marriage. Hell I am even in one. That said when someone uses the same line for 4 or 5 years it gets very old and stale........You are new here, you will find out.
    Yes, I am. I moved over here from Politico along with 10 or so other folks. I am too. I married a Thai, my oldest daughter married a Laotian, my son and youngest daughter both married whites. I have a grand daughter who is married to a black with three beautiful kids, great grand kids. I have a grandson who is in the army, following his grandpa's tradition who is getting ready to marry a Korean. Another grandson who is dating a Vietnamese, he just finished HS and is getting ready for college. So my family is all over the map.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  5. #215
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Perhaps now it is, I don't know as I haven't research it. I know I drew up a living will just in case, I have a will for my other things. Tax laws are written to encourage certain behavior the government wants of us. Wills have been the way things has been passed down and intentions known for centuries, they are nothing new. I am sure in the common law era, wills was about the only way to go as there were no default positions.

    As I said, I do not see this as a civil rights issue. If the SCOTUS sees it that way, I'll be fine with that and unlike abortion, if they do I hope it is by a 7-2, 8-1 or even 9-0 decision. Heck, the abortion verdict came down in 1973 by a 5-4 decision and it is still being fought. I think the SCOTUS will punt on prop 8, that will give it back to the 9th circuit court which has already ruled the ban unconstitutional and California will become the 10th state where gays can be legally married.

    As for DOMA, I had thought it to be unconstitutional also. Until someone pointed out that it basically only deals with federal benefits and congress is the body that decides who receives them or not. The thing to remember is prop 8 only deals with California, so however the SCOTUS decides, California will be the only state affected. DOMA covers all 50 states and gives cover to the states that do not recognize gay marriages. It is here where the SCOTUS ruling could effect the entire nation. But even if the SCOTUS punts or upholds DOMA, gay marriage is taking effect in state after state, abet slowly, but it is getting there. Perhaps a bit of patience can subdue the rancor that followed the abortion rule. To me it would be well worth it. To gays, that may not be the case. Time will tell.
    And without a will the estate went to the eldest son or spouse, depending on the time and place in history. There has always been a default position for unexpected death where there was no will.


    The legal system, itself, made it a civil rights issue when the laws started giving privilege to married couples, which should have never happened. Alas, we were once ruled by Christian Morality instead of rational law. At least we started off by declaring the 1st Commandment to be unconstitutional.
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  6. #216
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    As usual you are wrong..........I will give you and example....Prop 8 in Califfornia was approved by the people of the state............Who went to the Government to appeal it? I could go on and on.......
    Went to the courts to remove government involvement.
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  7. #217
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Perhaps now it is, I don't know as I haven't research it. I know I drew up a living will just in case, I have a will for my other things. Tax laws are written to encourage certain behavior the government wants of us. Wills have been the way things has been passed down and intentions known for centuries, they are nothing new. I am sure in the common law era, wills was about the only way to go as there were no default positions.

    As I said, I do not see this as a civil rights issue. If the SCOTUS sees it that way, I'll be fine with that and unlike abortion, if they do I hope it is by a 7-2, 8-1 or even 9-0 decision. Heck, the abortion verdict came down in 1973 by a 5-4 decision and it is still being fought. I think the SCOTUS will punt on prop 8, that will give it back to the 9th circuit court which has already ruled the ban unconstitutional and California will become the 10th state where gays can be legally married.

    As for DOMA, I had thought it to be unconstitutional also. Until someone pointed out that it basically only deals with federal benefits and congress is the body that decides who receives them or not. The thing to remember is prop 8 only deals with California, so however the SCOTUS decides, California will be the only state affected. DOMA covers all 50 states and gives cover to the states that do not recognize gay marriages. It is here where the SCOTUS ruling could effect the entire nation. But even if the SCOTUS punts or upholds DOMA, gay marriage is taking effect in state after state, abet slowly, but it is getting there. Perhaps a bit of patience can subdue the rancor that followed the abortion rule. To me it would be well worth it. To gays, that may not be the case. Time will tell.
    Just curious how many red states have approved gay marriage? I believe the answer to be zero and you are running out of blue states.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  8. #218
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Went to the courts to remove government involvement.

    Went to court to get government involved with the 9th circuit court.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  9. #219
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Yes, I am. I moved over here from Politico along with 10 or so other folks. I am too. I married a Thai, my oldest daughter married a Laotian, my son and youngest daughter both married whites. I have a grand daughter who is married to a black with three beautiful kids, great grand kids. I have a grandson who is in the army, following his grandpa's tradition who is getting ready to marry a Korean. Another grandson who is dating a Vietnamese, he just finished HS and is getting ready for college. So my family is all over the map.

    Congratulations on your great family so you can see there is very little connection with interracial and SSM. Interracial marriage is not changing the definition of marriage like SSM would.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  10. #220
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    Re: When the issue is gay marriage who are the intolerant ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Congratulations on your great family so you can see there is very little connection with interracial and SSM. Interracial marriage is not changing the definition of marriage like SSM would.
    So if gay marriage is legalized how will you define marriage?

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