View Poll Results: Is US military action against North Korea imminent?

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  • No. Kim Jong Un will calm down or Obama will ignore him.

    54 50.94%
  • North Korea will be hit with US air, drone and missle strikes.

    14 13.21%
  • A full land invasion of North Korea by US forces is coming soon.

    18 16.98%
  • Other

    20 18.87%
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Thread: War/military action against North Korea predictions

  1. #81
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Dubya did say that the axis of evil are: Iraq, Iran, and NK. Iraq is busted, Iran not, has time come for NK already?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  2. #82
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post

    Hell, it's a wonder this silly country has not collapsed all on its own by now.
    We shouldn't wonder too hard. Sanctions have always only worked to punish the population, not the antagonizers. Sanctions cause more damage to civilians than any war does, but protestors and politicians like their illusions.

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  3. #83
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Lets see, F-22's, B-2 bombers and anti ballistic anti missile batteries all deployed to the region. Everyone of those weapons platforms Obama and the liberals have opposed being funded and built.

    Do you see a problem here ?
    No. These systems have been funded enough. When you buy a car do you continually buy accessories, give it paint jobs, or change tires once a month? At some point you have to appreciate that you are just throwing your money away on what is already a perfectly fine car.

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    The funny thing will be watching Democrats explain how a military action against a country that didn't attack us matters under Obama.

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    The funny thing will be watching Democrats explain how a military action against a country that didn't attack us matters under Obama.
    Nah.....that's an easy one. They will Blame Bush!

  6. #86
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    No. These systems have been funded enough. When you buy a car do you continually buy accessories, give it paint jobs, or change tires once a month? At some point you have to appreciate that you are just throwing your money away on what is already a perfectly fine car.
    They opposed these weapons platforms while they were still in the R&D stages.

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    They opposed these weapons platforms while they were still in the R&D stages.
    It doesn't matter what the stages were. The F/A-22 goes back to the Cold War and was a beast of a program that has done nothing for any troop to this very day. It is a shining example of how grossly neglectful Washington has been in terms of military support. This program after the berlin Wall fell quickly developed into a program to line pockets and provide jobs in related states. When civilians talk about the need to cut funding to the military (as if that fixes anything), the result is a lack of "body armor" while programs like the F/A-22 continue to provide them their jobs and suck away billions of dollars. Save the tax payers milions by telling the troop to deal with outdated equipment, but spend billions on Programs the troop doesn't need? Make sense of that. I cannot.

    Total domination in every military event since the end of the Cold War was accomplished without the F/A-22 flying over our troops heads. Why is it that people seem to think they can't do without it? The Pentagon can easily prove its worth by simply placing it in combat for the first time ever. Of course, the fact that it carries less of a payload and burns fuel faster than active bombers makes it less useful to the troop when calling in an airstrike. The whole point of adding the "A" to the F-22 Program was to convince congress in the 90s that it can also be a bomber, thereby extending the Program. A Program that has its roots in the Cold War to fight off migs still being toyed with as it is pretended to support anything? Sounds like Congressional ignorance and Defense Industry intrigue to me. This is what happens when scientists and engineers are given blank checks to tinker with toys and not forced to produce for the troops. Give me an A-10 or a UAV anytime.

    As for the B-2, the last thing we need is yet another bomb delivery toy that pretends to replace the outstanding support we already have.
    Last edited by MSgt; 04-02-13 at 04:06 PM.

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It doesn't matter what the stages were. The F/A-22 goes back to the Cold War and was a beast of a program that has done nothing for any troop to this very day. Give me an A-10 or a UAV anytime.

    As for the B-2, the last thing we need is yet another bomb delivery toy.
    Where were you in 1989 ? Using the old liberal argument that a weapons platform is an relic of the Cold War.

    In 1989 the political left was calling the A-10 Warthog an obsolete aircraft, a relic of the Cold War. The A-10's were all scheduled to be sent to Davis Monthan AFB big bone yard in the desert. But some thing happened, it was the first Gulf War. Ends up the A-10 was an excellent CAS attack aircraft, as long as there was someone in the colckpit who had some knowledge of riflemen on the ground.

    BTW: 50 % of the A-10 squadrons have already been deactivated under the Obama administration.

    Are you familiar with the Marines ONTOS ? Probably before your time. It was probably the best counter sniper weapon we had in Vietnam. Originally designed to take on Soviet tanks in Europe. The Marines found out it was just not an excellent weapon of eliminating pesty snipers but also protecting air base perimeters and did an excellent job during the Battle of Hue.

    A couple years ago I and a few Marine officers who done tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan were discussing the ONTOS after viewing some videos of it in action during the Vietnam War. One Captain said this would have been a perfect weapon in Afghanistan. "It's a shame any time we have something that is plain, stupid, dumb and works, they scrap them."

    I mentioned I noticed all of the Vietnam War weapons that weren't scrapped but put in storage have been brought out of storage and being used in Afghanistan. The M-14 rifle, LAWWS, M-1911 A-1's, etc.

    BTW: There may not be any fighters, attack aircraft on the drawing boards today but there's a new bomber in the pipe line for the Air Force.

    War/military action against North Korea predictions-ontos_vietnam_700-jpg

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Where were you in 1989 ? Using the old liberal argument that a weapons platform is an relic of the Cold War.
    Okinawa, Japan. Junior in High School.

    I'm not sure what my reply to you had anything to do with liberalism in any culture. The fact is that the F22 Program was initially drawn up in 1981 for the purpose of replacing existing fighter jets against Soviet Migs. After the Cold War ended the F22 Program and many like it was up on the cutting block. Like many of those Programs, however, the engineers slapped a bombing capability on it and convinced Congress that it was best for our troops. Well here we are in 2013. Not once did any troop see an explosion in Iraq or Afghanistan that came from an F/A-22.

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    In 1989 the political left was calling the A-10 Warthog an obsolete aircraft, a relic of the Cold War. The A-10's were all scheduled to be sent to Davis Monthan AFB big bone yard in the desert. But some thing happened, it was the first Gulf War. Ends up the A-10 was an excellent CAS attack aircraft, as long as there was someone in the colckpit who had some knowledge of riflemen on the ground.
    Well, the A-10 being "obsolete" in 1989 was a stupid argument put forward by Democrats who rejoiced over the pathetic notion that "our wars are over" (plenty of Republicans shared in this bit of ignorance). It has nothing to do with today's continued and unnecessary F/A-22 tinkering.



    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    BTW: 50 % of the A-10 squadrons have already been deactivated under the Obama administration.
    This would be a better choice of protest than the F/A-22.

    Read what Ralph Peters has to say on the matter long before Obama pulled in the reigns...

    At present, the F-22 is far and away the most wasteful system we're funding. It is a legacy system. If you look at the things we're doing, like Kosovo for instance, the F-22 would have made zero contribution. It wouldn't have improved our effort in any regard. It's essentially meant to be used in dogfights, and nobody is coming up to dogfight us. No air force is preparing for that. The airframes we already have, such as the F-15 and the F-14, are vastly superior to anything out there that's being built or has been built. The F-22 is a shameful, disgraceful boondoggle and it revolts me.
    ...he is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Are you familiar with the Marines ONTOS ? Probably before your time. It was probably the best counter sniper weapon we had in Vietnam. Originally designed to take on Soviet tanks in Europe. The Marines found out it was just not an excellent weapon of eliminating pesty snipers but also protecting air base perimeters and did an excellent job during the Battle of Hue.

    A couple years ago I and a few Marine officers who done tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan were discussing the ONTOS after viewing some videos of it in action during the Vietnam War. One Captain said this would have been a perfect weapon in Afghanistan. "It's a shame any time we have something that is plain, stupid, dumb and works, they scrap them."

    I mentioned I noticed all of the Vietnam War weapons that weren't scrapped but put in storage have been brought out of storage and being used in Afghanistan. The M-14 rifle, LAWWS, M-1911 A-1's, etc.

    BTW: There may not be any fighters, attack aircraft on the drawing boards today but there's a new bomber in the pipe line for the Air Force.

    War/military action against North Korea predictions-ontos_vietnam_700-jpg
    None of this has anything to do with the F/A-22. You actually make the point that some of our older legacy equipment serves our troops better than uneccesary technological toys have. The argument over whether or not a piece of equipment is useful to the troop is a matter of individual equipment and current mission. Not all of it is worth keeping around and not all of it is worth sinking billions of dollars into it when it could be sunk to better systems of actual use. The M16 is the pefect example. It is by far one of the best assault rifles on the planet. Should we sink billions of dollars into unnecessarily designing a new assault rifle just because we can? The one we have (through its variations) serves the troop quite well. The same is true for our bombing aviation equipment. We have 288 F/A-22s in service and all are either collecting dust or conducting training exercises as troops in actual wars call in strikes from aircraft that do the job splendidly...at less the cost.

    The F/A-22 is a Ferrari at a time that our troops needed Mini Vans. The truth is that the F/A-22 carries half the payload of other troop supporting aircraft, carries less fuel, and makes our pilots lazy. Instead of improving on the tested F-15 and F-14, Congress has sunk hundreds of billions of dollars into a toy that has served nobody. They may as well start a Program to start funding the construction of the Death Star.
    Last edited by MSgt; 04-02-13 at 05:11 PM.

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  10. #90
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    [QUOTE=MSgt;1061644080]Okinawa, Japan. Junior in High School.

    I'm not sure what my reply to you had anything to do with liberalism in any culture. The fact is that the F22 Program was initially drawn up in 1981 for the purpose of replacing existing fighter jets against Soviet Migs. After the Cold War ended the F22 Program and many like it was up on the cutting block. Like many of those Programs, however, the engineers slapped a bombing capability on it and convinced Congress that it was best for our troops. QUOTE]




    I remember when the "Air Force" added a couple of hard points on the F-22 to sale it to Congress. It only confirms that there are to many stupid members in Congress who are legislating on subjects that they have no knowledge of.

    We see the same thing with gun control legislation where you have stupid people with no knowledge on the subject legislating on something they are clueless on. Still there are stupid people in Congress who don't know the difference between a magazine and a clip.

    Remember the F-14 Tomcat ? Designed and deployed for only one mission, a fighter to defend Carrier Battle Groups. It had no other mission. But towards the end of it's life they added some hard point to the aircraft so it could also conduct strike and attack missions. They would have done a lousy job at those jobs. The purpose was to temporary fill a gap until the FA-18 entered the fleet which was the replacement for the F-14, F-4, A-4 and A-7.

    The most successful and famous aircraft since the P-51 has to be the F-4 Phantom. It was originally designed as a fighter to protect aircraft carriers. The Marines put hard points on them and used them as attack aircraft. The Air Force adopted the F-4 and put a gun on it.

    The F-4 wasn't excellent at any thing. But it was good at every thing. It was a air superiority fighter, a tactical fighter, an attack aircraft, a CAS attack aircraft, a strike aircraft, a high altitude bomber, a reconnaissance aircraft and was successful as an EW aircraft taking out enemy SAM radar sites. Not excellent at any of those mission but good at it.

    But there was always one problem with the F-4, it smoked. No matter how high a F-4 was, you could always identify a F-4 by the trail of black smoke. Smoking can be hazardous to your heath in air to air combat and AAA.

    Fast track to 1981, the Reagan administration. By then all F-4's were headed to the bone yard. In the Air Force, the F-15 and F-16 were replacing all F-4 squadrons. In the Navy and Marine Corps the new FA-18 Hornets would be replacing all F-4 squadrons. But in the late 1970's the Israelis solved the smoking problem of the F-4's.

    The Reagan administration knew that all F-4's would be sitting in the bone yard with in a decade. But what's the dollar value of the life of a Naval aviator or Air Force pilot ? What if we find ourselves in a shooting war before these F-4's are deactivated ? Lets spend the money to give these F-4 pilots an edge they didn't have before by eliminating the smoking problem of the F-4's. With in a few years when you saw a F-4 in the sky, it wasn't smoking.

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