View Poll Results: Is US military action against North Korea imminent?

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  • No. Kim Jong Un will calm down or Obama will ignore him.

    54 50.94%
  • North Korea will be hit with US air, drone and missle strikes.

    14 13.21%
  • A full land invasion of North Korea by US forces is coming soon.

    18 16.98%
  • Other

    20 18.87%
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Thread: War/military action against North Korea predictions

  1. #11
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Actually the F35 is the one with the major problems and minimal gains in capability. F-22 is the premier fighter aircraft the world. Nothing matches it. It has and unmatched EW capability for a fighter. F-15's and F-16's and others are basically 1970's era airframes that have updated engines and electronics. They can get the job done but it takes more of them and their capabilities are more limited. Drones are not quite ready for CONTESTED airspace yet. In situations where airspace may be contested their electronic leashes may be cut and they are definitely vulnerable to a robust anti air defense. We don't have the drones in production for getting into contested airspace in any numbers yet. Those are mainly in the testing phase of development. Predators and the like are easy pickens in a contested environment. Unfortunately we still need piloted aircraft at this point to defeat most types of contested threats. This means those F-22's and B-2's are worth their weights in gold right now for the capabilities above and beyond anything else anybody can field and that is major advantage that translates to LESS casualties and greater chances of success.
    I should have been clearer, what I meant was that the F-22 doesn't give us any edge because we've already achieved total air superiority over any enemy we are likely to fight. Its like trying to improve upon perfection you just can't do it. Now I know there is no such thing as perfection war but for the cost of what the program was we really didn't gain much in the realm of air superiority because already totally dominant that field. Plus you can achieve more with few F-15 than you can with an F-22 and you get the F-15s for cheaper.

    The F-22 program cost us what? 66 billion dollars or there abouts, and we got 185 planes out of it, plus you have future maintenance costs which cannot be calculated yet but I haven't seen any estimates. I think we could have got better bang for our buck with F-15s.

    But I'm glad you do agree with me that the F-35 is a total flop.

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    You don't need F-22s to shoot down MiG-21s, the F-22 fighter platform was a ridiculously over budget unnecessary project that did not give the United States meaningful abilities in the air it did not already have. And when you factor in the cost you could have purchased many more fully capable and wholly sufficient F-15Es or even more drones to deliver a greater payload with just as much accuracy and safety to the pilot as a F-22.
    Maybe you better get on the phone and tell Obama he doesn't need to deploy those F-22's.

    BTW: The F-15 E is a tactical strike aircraft not an air superiority fighter. It's the closest thing we could come up with for the replacement of the F-111.

    The F-15 C is the air superiority fighter.

  3. #13
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    No. Kim Jong Un will calm down or Obama will ignore him.
    That one. I don't see nK being worth a strike without terrible provocation.

    Invasion is out of the question, unless China wants to have full control over the nation building post invasion (or inexplicably gives such to the US and South Korea). Even if China was ok with US/sK doing the nation building, we cannot afford it in nK. Iraq, with its oil and basic infrastructure (and lack of social capital because of Saddam) is difficult enough. nK is not buildable without China or UN commitment to nation building.

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I should have been clearer, what I meant was that the F-22 doesn't give us any edge because we've already achieved total air superiority over any enemy we are likely to fight. Its like trying to improve upon perfection you just can't do it. Now I know there is no such thing as perfection war but for the cost of what the program was we really didn't gain much in the realm of air superiority because already totally dominant that field. Plus you can achieve more with few F-15 than you can with an F-22 and you get the F-15s for cheaper.

    The F-22 program cost us what? 66 billion dollars or there abouts, and we got 185 planes out of it, plus you have future maintenance costs which cannot be calculated yet but I haven't seen any estimates. I think we could have got better bang for our buck with F-15s.

    But I'm glad you do agree with me that the F-35 is a total flop.
    There is no such thing as total dominance of the air war phase or any other phase for that matter till AFTER you achieve it. The F-22 is a very vital plane we have that has significant improvement and additional capabilities that the F-15 don't. And it is those capabilities in the INTITIAL phase of an air war that will eventually lead hopefully to aerial dominance with much less cost in material and manpower and time losses vs the F-15. The performance at the initial stages will determine the likely out come of the conflict. Which if you think about it would be worth the price in dollars verses the price in men. I'd rather spend money. Its easier to come by. Men are a more limited resource. Once dominance is achieved then your right the F-22 is overkill. Where the F-22 pays for itself is securing that dominance as quickly and efficiently as possible especially in a heavy SAM environment where it will really shine vs. F-15.
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Maybe you better get on the phone and tell Obama he doesn't need to deploy those F-22's.

    BTW: The F-15 E is a tactical strike aircraft not an air superiority fighter. It's the closest thing we could come up with for the replacement of the F-111.

    The F-15 C is the air superiority fighter.
    I can assure you that the F-15E is a fine fighter and performs quite similarly to the C model in that respect and can perform air superiority missions just as well. In fact the E model is an upgraded B model with some structural changes made and upgraded engines and FAST packs.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    I believe that KJU will continue to rattle his sabre until he gets an appeasement that is to his liking.
    He knows that we (the US) are very tired of war and will go to great lengths to avoid it.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I can assure you that the F-15E is a fine fighter and performs quite similarly to the C model in that respect and can perform air superiority missions just as well. In fact the E model is an upgraded B model with some structural changes made and upgraded engines and FAST packs.
    Maybe true, but I doubt there's anyone in the USAF who's going to send F-15 E's to clear the skies of other air superiority fighters.

    But a quick research I come up with that the F-15 E has half the air superiority rating of the F-15 C. That the F-15 E is about equal to the FA-18 C in air to air combat where as the F-15 C is rated twice as high as the FA-18C

    This isn't from the internet, but the info is six years old.

    If I remember correctly during training competition missions where Navy and Marine aircraft went up against the F-15 E, the Super Hornets were able to defeat it. The F-15 C had an edge over the F-18 E Super Hornets but there were a few times that the F-18 E prevailed but usually the F-15 C won.

    As for the F-22, no aircraft in competitions including the F-15 C was able to defeat the F-22.

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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Maybe true, but I doubt there's anyone in the USAF who's going to send F-15 E's to clear the skies of other air superiority fighters.

    But a quick research I come up with that the F-15 E has half the air superiority rating of the F-15 C. That the F-15 E is about equal to the FA-18 C in air to air combat where as the F-15 C is rated twice as high as the FA-18C

    This isn't from the internet, but the info is six years old.

    If I remember correctly during training competition missions where Navy and Marine aircraft went up against the F-15 E, the Super Hornets were able to defeat it. The F-15 C had an edge over the F-18 E Super Hornets but there were a few times that the F-18 E prevailed but usually the F-15 C won.

    As for the F-22, no aircraft in competitions including the F-15 C was able to defeat the F-22.
    The reason for that is the F-15E runs the FAST pack conformal fuel tank and sensor packages normaly, they don't normally run them clean like the C. The Tanks can be removed or added to the C or E. Without the tanks the performance would be about equal or lesser to a small fraction. The FAST tanks are sometimes called conformal fuel tanks or CFT's. They add a extra 750 gallons of fuel and additional sensors. They also add weight and drag and cant be dropped in flight. Like I said before its basically a hopped up B model strengthened structurally for extended life and extended low level flight with more powerful turbines. The performance wont quite match the C when both are clean but should be relatively close.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  9. #19
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I should have been clearer, what I meant was that the F-22 doesn't give us any edge because we've already achieved total air superiority over any enemy we are likely to fight.
    With the F-22, yes. Insofar as it is a game of plane v plane. Without it, not as much, no.

    The F-35 is a nightmare because they tried to make the plane a replacement for everything else. The A-10? Really?

  10. #20
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    Re: War/military action against North Korea predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Kim Jong Un has IMHO already done enough to justify a US military response. He's pointed missiles at American bases in Japan and Guam. He cut the line that allows emergency communications between North and South Korea. Last year he fired missiles at a South Korean residitial area killing innocent civilians seemingly for no other reason than to look tough/crazy. Before his rise to power his father ignored the international community and has successfully proliferated nuclear weapons, weapons Junior now possesses. Under treaty agreements, military actions against South Korea are considered attacks on the United States of America. Un has publically stated a state of war exists between North South Korea, translation: he declared war against America under US treaty obligations. The question is will he come to his senses and back up and/or will president Obama spank that A and treat North Korea as part axis of evil or ignore him? My observation is Obama talks a good game of peace and love when it comes to playing nice with homocidal maniacs but still kicks butt most of the time.

    Not sure if I should even say this but I heard on relatively good authority troops scheduled for deployment in Afghanistan have had their orders cancelled 'in case they're needed elsewhere.' A new type of naval sea to surface battle ship never used before is now parked off the coast of North Korea.
    No one really knows whats going to happen at this point. It all depends on Kim Jong Un. The possibility of a nuclear war was always trumped by the M.A.D theory (mutually assured destruction). But than again that model operates under the assumption that the actors in question are RATIONAL human beings. If N. Korea does control operative nuclear weapons, the fate of the world as we know it all depends if Kim Jong Un is a rational human being. If not, even the tiniest of "provocation", such as the death of a N. Korean military official for example, could spark a nuclear fallout.


    SO... in closing.....

    I hope every one is good with Jesus
    Last edited by Lightning; 04-01-13 at 09:37 AM.
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