View Poll Results: How do you feel about female soldiers?

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  • Like them, GI Jane is HOT

    16 27.12%
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    11 18.64%
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    7 11.86%
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Thread: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

  1. #71
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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Like I said, no reason a woman can't do that menstruating if she can do it not menstruating.
    I remain skeptical of this claim. Periods hit some women harder than others.

    I really don't notice my period most of the time. Most women who don't have medical issues don't notice it much. And incidentally, a lot of medical issues are fixed by improved physical conditioning.
    True, but that is in "three square meals a day and in bed by 10PM" civilian land. When you're marching 10 plus miles every day over rough terrain in temperatures of 100 degrees or more, sleeping 2 to 3 hours a night (if at all), and living off of barely nutritious rationed food, things can change rather quickly.

    We had three or four women drop out during basic training due to stress fractures in their femurs and pelvises brought on by nutritional deficiency and the excessively physical work load, and that was with three square meals a day and 6-8 hours of dedicated sleep every night. Real combat is much, much more strenuous; particularly for a dedicated infantryman.

    "A little lost blood" might prove to be more damning than you might think.

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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I remain skeptical of this claim. Periods hit some women harder than others.
    Yes. And a woman who has medical issues related to her period should be assessed like any other candidate with medical issues. But it is not the norm for women to spend their period sick.

    True, but that is in "three square meals a day and in bed by 10PM" civilian land. When you're marching 10 plus miles every day over rough terrain in temperatures of 100 degrees or more, sleeping 2 to 3 hours a night (if at all), and living off of barely nutritious rationed food, things can change rather quickly.

    We had three or four women drop out during basic training due to stress fractures in their femurs and pelvises brought on by nutritional deficiency and the excessively physical work load, and that was with three square meals a day and 6-8 hours of dedicated sleep every night. Real combat is much, much more strenuous; particularly for a dedicated infantryman.

    "A little lost blood" might prove to be more damning than you might think.
    A women who experiences something like that in basic must have had nutritional deficiencies LONG before she entered the military. You don't destroy your bones in a matter of weeks. That is not surprising, given the way women these days are pressured to under-eat, or eat things with little nutritional value.

    Menstruation has nothing to do with that. An average woman loses 2 or 3 tablespoons of blood over the course of several days to a week, and that blood isn't even coming from her circulatory store. That's pretty much nothing.

  3. #73
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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Proper product use would easily solve that. Not to get TMI on you, but menstrual cups can be used internally and left in there for 12-24 straight hours if need be. The military would only need to issue one per woman. A woman could handle emptying it the same way she handles other waste that could identify any other person -- probably by burying or other containment measures.

    Depends what you mean by "quite a few." A healthy woman doesn't have significant symptoms during her period. I imagine it's pretty common for anyone in those conditions to get minor discomforting ailments like a headache or a stomach ache. A healthy woman doesn't experience anything that's any more significant than that. Some don't experience any discomfort.

    A healthy woman also does not lose substantial iron. If her iron levels were healthy pre-menstruation, they will remain healthy during. Women are BUILT to do this. And they are able to do it without become ill.

    But if it's some major concern, just put more iron in their rations. It wouldn't cost more -- or even as much -- as male rations, because women don't require as much.
    You might very well be correct. However, it simply strikes me as being a lot of extra (and frankly unnecessary) trouble and expense to go through for little to nothing in the way of tangible gain.

    Even if every solution you have suggested does work (which is kind of questionable in the first place), so what? What explicit benefit do we male soldiers, or the United States Government in general, gain from having women in harm's way?

    As far as I can tell, there is no gain. It's simply something the P.C. "powers that be" insist on ramming down all of our throats for the Hell of it.

    Don't "fix" something that isn't broken.

  4. #74
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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    You might very well be correct. However, it simply strikes me as being a lot of extra (and frankly unnecessary) trouble and expense to go through for little to nothing in the way of tangible gain.

    Even if every solution you have suggested does work (which is kind of questionable in the first place), so what? What explicit benefit do we male soldiers, or the United States Government gain from having women in harm's way?

    As far as I can tell, there is no gain. It's simply something the P.C. "powers that be" insist on ramming down all of our throats for the Hell of it.
    How is it "a lot of trouble" to issue a menstrual cup instead of a jock strap?

    What benefit does it offer the US government to exclude qualified women who are willing to serve?

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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    How is it "a lot of trouble" to issue a menstrual cup instead of a jock strap?
    We aren't issued jock straps. There's no need for them. There's no need for additional dietary supplements for male soldiers either.

    Between R&D, production, distribution, and training in their effective use, you might be surprised at how much all of what you have suggested ends up costing in the longrun.

    This is the government we're talking about, after all. "$10,000 for a hammer, $20,000 for a toilet seat."

    What benefit does it offer the US government to exclude qualified women who are willing to serve?
    If standards remain the same for men and women, the kinds of women you describe are going to be so incredibly rare as to be a virtual non-issue.

    Canada has somewhere around 100 female combat soldiers in service, of which they have already managed to get 2 or 3 killed.

    I mean... Why? What's the point?

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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    We aren't issued jock straps. There's no need for them. There's no need for additional dietary supplements for male soldiers either.

    Between R&D, production, and distribution you might be surprised at how much all of what you have suggested ends up costing in the longrun.

    "$10,000 for a hammer, $20,000 for a toilet seat."
    I have suggested a single object that can be issued once and used for the entire length of a deployment, no matter how long. It would save the military money over what they're probably doing now. And whatever money is spent on that would easily be saved in reduced calorie needs.

    Where are you getting this thing about "all the things I've suggested?" For the most part, I've been saying that women don't actually NEED all of these things that YOU suggested.

    If standards remain the same for men and women, the kinds of women you describe are going to be so incredibly rare as to be a virtual non-issue.

    Canada has somewhere around 100 female combat soldiers in service, of which they have already managed to get 2 or 3 killed.

    I mean... Why? What's the point?
    Women are or would be qualified for an increasing number of jobs as combat strategies develop. As several other people who are IN the military have already said, this isn't WWII warfare anymore.

    What is the point of male soldiers being killed?

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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    How is it "a lot of trouble" to issue a menstrual cup instead of a jock strap?
    Well, everyone should have a uniform ruck. It makes finding something in someone else's gear fast and easy. Given, I'm referring to leet infantry. I think women in non-infantry combat arms are not likely to regularly (even in training) encounter such difficult, physically, situations for extended periods (heh) of time.

    Here's a good test: Ranger School. If a female can do that with no special gear, she's good ta go. In my jump school (~120?) there were ~10 females and none of them made it through the three weeks. Lots of females get jump wings, but I didn't see any make it. Compared to some of the training I did with my unit, jump school was nothing. Really, after basic and AIT, jump school was vacation. They just couldn't make the Friday runs. Falling back one position in formation, 3 runs total or 1 Friday, 'see ya'.

    When a female completes Ranger school with standard gear, then we know a female who can do leet stuff on the rag. Probably, she'd take long-term birth control to avoid complications during the school. But if she could do it with periods, she's definately hardcore.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 04-01-13 at 12:52 AM.

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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I have suggested a single object that can be issued once and used for the entire length of a deployment, no matter how long. It would save the military money over what they're probably doing now.
    You're going to have to provide some evidence that something like this could work over an extended period of time.

    I imagine that some non-negligible hygienic issues would come into play if a woman were to try and wear something like that on an extended field op.

    And whatever money is spent on that would easily be saved in reduced calorie needs.
    Military rations are already "one size fits all." Developing special rations for men and women would simply cost more money.

    Where are you getting this thing about "all the things I've suggested?" For the most part, I've been saying that women don't actually NEED all of these things that YOU suggested.
    In my experience, the vast majority of women are not so physically robust as you claim to be.

    Women are or would be qualified for an increasing number of jobs as combat strategies develop. As several other people who are IN the military have already said, this isn't WWII warfare anymore.
    Yes, and these are all non-frontline positions which most women are already eligible for.

    The current push is to toss them into combat jobs which are still run more or less exactly how they were during WW2.

    What is the point of male soldiers being killed?
    It's sometimes necessary. However, men are more readily built for that kind of thing and require far less maintenance.

    There's not much point in pushing people who aren't meant for a given job into it if you're just going to wind up having to coddle them the whole time; particularly when there is really no shortage of able bodied people around who are qualified for the same positions.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 04-01-13 at 12:59 AM.

  9. #79
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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    However, neither of those facts really make for a compelling argument for having them go toe-to-toe with men in frontline combat.
    We're not talking about "them". We're talking about the less then 1% of women who can pass the standards. If someone can do it, they can do it. But no lowering standards of any sort.

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    Re: What's your opinion on female soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    You're going to have to provide some evidence that something like could work over an extended period of time.

    I imagine that some non-negligible hygienic issues would come into play if a woman were to try and wear something that on an extended field op.
    They're made of silicone, which doesn't easily breed bacteria. A simple wash with anything you have on hand once a month will take care of it. These products exist in the market already. They can be used for years.

    They're actually more hygienic than tampons. There is no risk of TSS associated with them, like there is with tampons. There's sizing, but this is really just a marketing thing, and unimportant in reality. Vaginas are stretchy. For the purposes of the military, there shouldn't be any problem with just having a single standard issue size.

    Menstrual cup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It would actually cost the military less, reduce hygiene issues, and require less maintenance.

    Military rations are already "one size fits all." Making special rations for men and women would simply cost more money.

    Where are you getting this thing about "all the things I've suggested?" For the most part, I've been saying that women don't actually NEED all of these things that YOU suggested.
    Then don't. What I said is that a healthy woman DOESN'T NEED special rations.

    What I said is if you're worried about it, you could do that. But there's no medical reason to be worried about it. A healthy woman doesn't lose much, if any, iron during her period.

    Yes, and these are all non-frontline positions which most women are already eligible for.

    The current push is to toss them into combat jobs which are still run more or less exactly how they were during WW2.
    That isn't really what I'm hearing from people in the military on this thread. However, if that's true, I will defer to those more qualified; allow a given woman into the positions she qualifies for, and don't for the ones she doesn't.

    It's sometimes necessary. However, men are more readily built for that kind of thing and require far less maintenance.

    There's not much point in pushing people who aren't really meant for a given job into it if you're just going to wind up having to coddle them the whole time; particularly when there is really no shortage of ablebodied people around who are qualified.
    Not true. Like I said, men actually require a lot more resources than women do. In long-term cast-away situations, a woman is more likely to survive due to her dramatically lower resource requirements.

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