View Poll Results: Do you believe in flying saucers?

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  • Yes

    14 31.82%
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Thread: Do you believe in flying saucers?

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    It's perfectly rational to declare things of which there is no evidence for
    yes, after you reviewed a reasonable amount of evidence. Here, there was no reviewing a reasonable amount of evidence. Hence, you are making a declaration from ignorence


    and claims against their existence have been disproven, not to exist.
    If someone claims life exists on a pacific island, and is proven wrong, that doesn't establishes that life doesn't exist on other 100 island in the region, especially when they contain completely different characteristics and we have hardly any knowledge of them

    It would be irrational to claim there's absolutely no way in hell they CAN exist. There's a difference.
    right, you're saying such life is unlikely to exist. But that statement is still dependent on an extremely shallow pool of knowledge

  2. #62
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    yes, after you reviewed a reasonable amount of evidence. Here, there was no reviewing a reasonable amount of evidence. Hence, you are making a declaration from ignorence
    What is "ignorence?" You mean ignorance? There's reviewing of evidence. Claims have been disproven as airplanes, weather balloons, science projects, or just flat out blatant lies.

    If someone claims life exists on a pacific island, and is proven wrong, that doesn't establishes that life doesn't exist on other 100 island in the region, especially when they contain completely different characteristics and we have hardly any knowledge of them
    What is this, Ancient Aliens? I thought we we're talking about the here and now. It would also be safe that there would be evidence of some sort of catastrophic event causing them to disappear as well as their previous existence.

    right, you're saying such life is unlikely to exist. But that statement is still dependent on an extremely shallow pool of knowledge
    It's tough. It's an intertwining of non-science (mathematics) and sciences. Statistically, it's highly likely. So far as to scientific evidence, it's negated. Such life is unlikely to exist with our curent knowledge. Is our current knowledge the best ever? Well that requires futuristic insight which I do not possess. Is it the best up to this moment? Yes.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    What is "ignorence?" You mean ignorance? There's reviewing of evidence. Claims have been disproven as airplanes, weather balloons, science projects, or just flat out blatant lies.
    Why would the fact that claimed visitations to earth were proven false speak to the larger issue of life in the universe? That simply speaks to the issue of supposed visitation. Life could exist that can't visit earth, doesn't want to visit earth, or even completely incapable of visiting earth



    What is this, Ancient Aliens? I thought we we're talking about the here and now. It would also be safe that there would be evidence of some sort of catastrophic event causing them to disappear as well as their previous existence.
    I am pointing out you have no basis to claim there is a lack of extraterrestrial life because such a lack of life in our immediate area does not speak to such a lack on the endless number of other planets and solar systems that exist in the universe.

    Also, why do you assume such life would have died out when the entire point is that we don't even know enough to declare that life doesn't exist on most of these planets, to begin with?

    It's tough. It's an intertwining of non-science (mathematics) and sciences. Statistically, it's highly likely. So far as to scientific evidence, it's negated. Such life is unlikely to exist with our curent knowledge. Is our current knowledge the best ever? Well that requires futuristic insight which I do not possess. Is it the best up to this moment? Yes.
    with our "current knowledge" that is extremely limited to one tiny planet. But you want to make declarations about the entire universe based on that, even though we discover new forms of life here everyday.

  4. #64
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Why would the fact that claimed visitations to earth were proven false speak to the larger issue of life in the universe? That simply speaks to the issue of supposed visitation. Life could exist that can't visit earth, doesn't want to visit earth, or even completely incapable of visiting earth
    Does it even exist to humans then?

    I am pointing out you have no basis to claim there is a lack of extraterrestrial life because such a lack of life in our immediate area does not speak to such a lack on the endless number of other planets and solar systems that exist in the universe.
    Certainly doesn't. I never claimed it was impossible. How dishonest of you.

    Also, why do you assume such life would have died out when the entire point is that we don't even know enough to declare that life doesn't exist on most of these planets, to begin with?
    If they didn't die out, then they would be able to be contacted about their existence.

    with our "current knowledge" that is extremely limited to one tiny planet. But you want to make declarations about the entire universe based on that, even though we discover new forms of life here everyday.
    Until there's evidence, it would be foolish to scientifically theorize their existence.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Does it even exist to humans then?
    what do you mean? If you're claiming it then lacks relevency, I would simply point out your original claim didn't speak to the relevancy of the question



    Certainly doesn't. I never claimed it was impossible. How dishonest of you.
    You have been clearly arguing that there is no such thing as ET life in the universe. You certainly stopped short of claiming it as scientific fact, but you have stated we have enough evidence to point to it being extremely unlikely.

    My contention has been we don't have enough evidence to make such a claim





    If they didn't die out, then they would be able to be contacted about their existence.
    why do you assume they would want to or are even be capable of such? Maybe they exist in the same state as native bacteria (totally unintelligent, with little interest beyond reproduction)



    Until there's evidence, it would be foolish to scientifically theorize their existence.
    the same with claiming they don't exist ... Which is my point
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 04-01-13 at 04:05 PM.

  6. #66
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    what do you mean? If you're claiming it then lacks relevency, I would simply point out your original claim didn't speak to the relevancy of the question
    If it's untestable and we'll never know (and neither will they) does it even exist? Read some Popper. That's like claiming there's a cow that's always 5 feet directly in front of you and, no matter how fast or far you travel, you'll never see him, touch him, or feel him. Indeed it does lack relevancy ("relevency" isn't a word, either).

    You have been clearly arguing that there is no such thing as ET life in the universe. You certainly stopped short of claiming it as scientific fact, but you have stated we have enough evidence to point to it being extremely unlikely.

    My contention has been we don't have enough evidence to make such a claim
    ET life in the universe isn't impossible. I never claimed as such. I did say that, as of yet - with a lack of evidence for them (and claims made thus far have been shown less than credible) - it's foolish to claim they exist. There's no reason to think they exist and there's a reason to think they don't exist.

    why do you assume they would want to or even be capable of such?
    Why wouldn't they? How would they be incapable?

    the same with claiming they don't exist ... Which is my point
    I'm claiming as of yet, there's no reason to posit their existence. I'm not saying they're impossible (as you seem to be claiming I claimed).
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  7. #67
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    If it's untestable and we'll never know (and neither will they) does it even exist? Read some Popper. That's like claiming there's a cow that's always 5 feet directly in front of you and, no matter how fast or far you travel, you'll never see him, touch him, or feel him. Indeed it does lack relevancy ("relevency" isn't a word, either).
    We can test it by simply gaining more knowledge of alien environments



    ET life in the universe isn't impossible. I never claimed as such. I did say that, as of yet - with a lack of evidence for them (and claims made thus far have been shown less than credible) - it's foolish to claim they exist. There's no reason to think they exist and there's a reason to think they don't exist.
    again, claims about earth visitations does not speak to the existence of alien lifeforms. I'm not sure how you can confuse such easily distinguished points, nor continue to ignore that our pool of potential evidence, that would indicate it's existence, or not, is extremely shallow.

    Hence, it's just as foolish to assert they don't exist





    Why wouldn't they? How would they be incapable?
    Because we simply don't hold the type of interest that makes such a trip worthwhile, they lack the technology, they exist in an unintelligent state, etc



    I'm claiming as of yet, there's no reason to posit their existence. I'm not saying they're impossible (as you seem to be claiming I claimed).
    Nope , you claimed they likely didn't exist and cited the debunked claims of visitation, and our inadequate understanding of alien environments to support it.

  8. #68
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    We can test it by simply gaining more knowledge of alien environments
    I'm assuming you mean foreign environments?

    again, claims about earth visitations does not speak to the existence of alien lifeforms. I'm not sure how you can confuse such easily distinguished points, nor continue to ignore that our pool of potential evidence, that would indicate it's existence, or not, is extremely shallow.
    Those claims are hypotheses. They have been disproven. The potential evidence for what? Aliens?

    Hence, it's just as foolish to assert they don't exist
    Unless there's evidence, it's a default position to assume they don't, no?

    Because we simply don't hold the type of interest that makes such a trip worthwhile, they lack the technology, they exist in an unintelligent state, etc
    A trip? What? They may lack technology but investigators (presumably) wouldn't. They may be unintelligent, that doesn't mean they couldn't show evidence they existed elsewhere.

    Nope , you claimed they likely didn't exist and cited the debunked claims of visitation, and our inadequate understanding of alien environments to support it.
    As of today, there's no reason to posit their existence (again). Do you have evidence to show they are likely to exist?
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  9. #69
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    I believe in ET but not "flying saucers" as I'm sure you mean it. To believe we're alone in the universe is folly at best.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Do you believe in flying saucers?

    Given how big the universe is, its quite reasonable to predict that life exists somewhere other than earth. However, that does nothing to excuse the absurdity of claiming that intelligent aliens are visiting earth in spacecraft as we speak. Every single shred of so called "evidence" regarding UFO's is infinitely more explainable by human stupidity than the actual presence of alien life. There is no practical mechanism that could explain why every single scientific method fails to detect aliens, yet somehow they are discovered by drunk people in rural Kansas. Nowadays there are huge amounts of high quality cameras floating around that could get a very nice picture of a flying saucer with excellent detail, yet someone all we get are vague blurry pictures that could be anything.

    Bottom line, there is every indication that humans make crap up and none that aliens are probing anuses and making crop circles. Its not exactly a wonder how easily politicians can BS the public if they are also willing to believe in crap like flying saucers.

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