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Are public schools socialism?

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PirateMk1 said:
You would. Duhhh. Or do you hate your children?
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Well, my kid is crap out of luck with trigonometry and up, so no science or research career for him.
 
Henrin said:
So?? Why does something being in the public interest warrant the government being involved in that activity? Who cares if an educated population helps the country? That has nothing to do with the job of the government. That is a responsibility of people.



It's a matter of fact. People are interested in having their children educated and go out to make that interest a reality in the market where people are employed to fill this interest these parents have. Public education doesn't even really change this, but instead provides them a place to get this interest realized where other people pay for the service and the government is in charge of the educational process.

I'm honestly not interested in fixing a system where the government is in charge of education, sorry. Mutual benefit of the government acting does not warrant anything.
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We've been through this before, but why is military not socialism while public education is?
 
MadLib said:
We've been through this before, but why is military not socialism while public education is?
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"Socialism" has become a meaningless term in today's political discourse.
 
Education is a human right.

Public schooling is beneficial to all and it doesn't fall on either side of the political spectrum. The reason we acknowledge we need education, in the form of public schools, is because we don't want to live a world full of idiots. Then again, the entire educational system needs to be revamped, but that doesn't mean we need to get rid of public education, it means we need to reinvent it.

Western society championed public schools in the wake of Enlightenment and it has benefited the world greatly. You can have public and private education, both, side by side.
 
Cardinal said:
I think the best way to achieve this is for all schools to have equal federal funding. Tying the funding to local property taxes is a disaster (unless you're one of those lucky enough to live in a community with high property taxes).
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Now one would think your approach makes sense.

However, in California, schools in lower income areas receive more funding than those in high income areas. The results continue to be dismal.

It's not the money. It's the curriculum/focus, and the parents/students.

For example, Parents are allowed to be so disconnected from their responsibilities, the Los Angeles Unified School district rewards them by providing their children with meals three times a day, 365 days of the year.

And then there is the Teachers Union problem...
 
rocket88 said:
"Socialism" has become a meaningless term in today's political discourse.
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Nothing that any president has done can be considered socialism. There is no industry today that is COMPLETELY in the hands of the government or the workers, aside from the police.
 
ocean515 said:
Now one would think your approach makes sense.

However, in California, schools in lower income areas receive more funding than those in high income areas. The results continue to be dismal.

It's not the money. It's the curriculum/focus, and the parents/students.

For example, Parents are allowed to be so disconnected from their responsibilities, the Los Angeles Unified School district rewards them by providing their children with meals three times a day, 365 days of the year.

And then there is the Teachers Union problem...
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Bad management and policy are separate issues from adequate funding. No one can deny that proper facilities, number and qualification of teachers and tools require funds. You don't punish bad policy by revoking the funding, you replace the management.
 
Wiseone said:
How would people be educated if we closed down the public schools?
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Private schools and other means of educational services provided by the market. In fact, the market can provide free education if people are willing to realize that potential. Yes, I have ideas on doing just that.
 
Henrin said:
Private schools and other means of educational services provided by the market. In fact, the market can provide free education if people are willing to realize that potential. Yes, I have ideas on doing just that.
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I'd like to hear those ideas, as well as how the market can fund schools in less marketable regions.
 
Cardinal said:
Well, my kid is crap out of luck with trigonometry and up, so no science or research career for him.
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What you don't know how to hire a tutor? You don't know how to find or shop a PRIVATE school. You that incompetent? Really? I know VERY few people who are actually COMPLETE and utter morons. You don't strike me as one. By the way if you didn't know I bet you would LEARN. Just a hunch.
 
Henrin said:
Private schools and other means of educational services provided by the market. In fact, the market can provide free education if people are willing to realize that potential. Yes, I have ideas on doing just that.
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Education is a necessity for a free people. The market would do, as they did in the past, well for the wealthy, and less so for the less wealthy.
 
Henrin said:
Education is a service.
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Just to be clear, does this mean you have no problems with people being born into less, uh...marketable...communities, and thus being forced into lower path careers due to less access to education?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Are public schools socialism?
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Well, this is just like a religious question. You can answer it so that it fits your agenda.
If you are a con/libertarian, then yes, it's socialism.


But it's only been socialism since the R's lost the WH
 
Cardinal said:
Bad management and policy are separate issues from adequate funding. No one can deny that proper facilities, number and qualification of teachers and tools require funds. You don't punish bad policy by revoking the funding, you replace the management.
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As I wrote, it's been demonstrated in schools accross the country that the issue is not funding. It has been proven in California that the issue is not funding.

I understand that is the focus of teachers, administrators, and the Unions that control the schools, but all the evidence is in.
 
PirateMk1 said:
What you don't know how to hire a tutor? You don't know how to find or shop a PRIVATE school. You that incompetent? Really? I know VERY few people who are actually COMPLETE and utter morons. You don't strike me as one. By the way if you didn't know I bet you would LEARN. Just a hunch.
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There are multiple reasons why even very wealthy people with even the best access to money still send their kids to private schools, or are careful to move to communities with extremely high quality public schools.

1)Socialization and/or potential career connections.
2)Exposing their children to ideas they themselves might not have, and most practically:
3)Forming a curriculum is a full time job. Overseeing the education of their child personally is time consuming and would steal time away from their own ability to make a living.
4)I could barely get through trigonometry. Calculus was 100% out of the question.
 
Wiseone said:
How would people be educated if we closed down the public schools?
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They would do it themselves or hire someone. Just like they did before. And like before the your children would reap superior benefit then they do now, because the education is tailored to them. Not to mention the parents don't have to worry about extraneous bull**** that comes with a public school education.
 
Henrin said:
Education is a service.
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I think somebody didn't read his mandatory Universal Declaration of Human Rights Act. Here, let me enlighten you.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 26.

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Got it? It's not a service. It's a right. And who must cater to the fulfillment of that right? The society. Because failure to cater to this basic human right will be the downward spiral of our society.
 
ocean515 said:
As I wrote, it's been demonstrated in schools accross the country that the issue is not funding. It has been proven in California that the issue is not funding.

I understand that is the focus of teachers, administrators, and the Unions that control the schools, but all the evidence is in.
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And yet, ironically, you're tying bad policy or other negative practices in as examples of why adequate funding is not necessary. The problem is the policy, not the funding. With proper management and funding the quality of education would be extremely high.
 
PirateMk1 said:
They would do it themselves or hire someone. Just like they did before. And like before the your children would reap superior benefit then they do now, because the education is tailored to them. Not to mention the parents don't have to worry about extraneous bull**** that comes with a public school education.
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You're not talking about home schooled children, are you? Because while they tend to be quite good at reading, writing and arithmetic, they're also usually complete idiots at everything else.
 
Cardinal said:
There are multiple reasons why even very wealthy people with even the best access to money still send their kids to private schools, or are careful to move to communities with extremely high quality public schools.

1)Socialization and/or potential career connections.
2)Exposing their children to ideas they themselves might not have, and most practically:
3)Forming a curriculum is a full time job. Overseeing the education of their child personally is time consuming and would steal time away from their own ability to make a living.
4)I could barely get through trigonometry. Calculus was 100% out of the question.
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The number one reason that wealthy people send their children to private school or hire tutors is TIME IS MONEY. That is the number one reason. That's why they do most anything. Their time is VERY valuable and it is a limited commodity there only 24 hours in a day and you cant save them. All the other reasons are ancillary.
 
PirateMk1 said:
The number one reason that wealthy people send their children to private school or hire tutors is TIME IS MONEY. That is the number one reason. That's why they do most anything. Their time is VERY valuable and it is a limited commodity there only 24 hours in a day and you cant save them. All the other reasons are ancillary.
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That was actually my important point. Were you joking then when you said parents should teach the kids themselves or hire a tutor?
 
Cardinal said:
You're not talking about home schooled children, are you? Because while they tend to be quite good at reading, writing and arithmetic, they're also usually complete idiots at everything else.
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Private schooling whatever the method. Most homeschooled that I have met quite frankly are much more motivated than public school with few exceptions. They do tend to be more socially awkward. But then again they don't tend to care either. Everything has its good and bad points.
 
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