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Thread: Are public schools socialism?

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Government programs exist because Government exist to provide for common needs that cannot effectively be provided by individuals alone. To me, education does fit that. Defense, law enforcement, fire fighting and education are some of those needs. This is not socialism, nor is this using government programs to provide something that people are too stupid to earn on their own. They apply to all citizens and are why governments are formed in the first place. I do recognize that education may be a little on the fringe, but I support it and don't call it socialism.

    Being of a more "Federalist" or "Centrist" mindset in some things, I do see the system as grossly inefficient and in need of some serious trimming down. I don't know how Idaho does it, but here in Texas we have "independent" school districts which the state provides money to but has no direct control over. During the economic downturn and following reduced budgets, the education budget of course fell under the chopping block because it is controlled by the state. The state also noted that in the majority of districts, over 50% of funding was being used for "Administrators" and not facilities, teachers, text books, etc. The state however cannot order independent districts to eliminate administration positions. Since it is the administrators that control how the budget is spent, when cuts are made, teachers and other things take the brunt of it, with little or no cuts to administration. This kind of activity is a major source of cost issues and relates, at least some, to the quality issues also.

    Quality of education has primarily suffered due to the adoption of anti-discipline ideals, improper focus and many other issues which would require a rather large amount of time to actually type out here, but most of which relate to pushing a pro-liberal education agenda.
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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    I'm a firm believer in abolishing the Department of Education and letting communities focus on it. I do not believe a large bureaucracy can help educate students.
    This would result in an institutionalized geographical gettoization of America since only the wealthiest communities could afford the best schools. Born to the wrong parents? Tough! Hope you like working in the coal plant.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    But again, you talk about how terrible it is, but you don't mind if the States do it. Socialism is fine on a State by State basis?
    It is a state right to educate their kids as they see fit and the residents of that state would choose how that was accomplished based on their vote for a specific program or governor whom they chose to run their state. Socialism is a top down system run by faceless bureaucrats and politicians voted in by people in far away states and cities, huge difference and there is that pesky 10th amendment thing.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Socialism is a top down system run by faceless bureaucrats and politicians voted in by people in far away states and cities,
    My, how socialism has changed in definition since I was a lad.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Just take a cruise through this site to get a taste of how deep the tentacles of the Federal gov reach into education. Each state should decide how they educate their kids, how much to spend on it AND the books they will use to teach them not to mention the teachers they hire and FIRE and if those teachers have to be in the union. The cost of educating our kids could go way down and the quality of their education could go way up if the feds would stay out of the equation.

    U.S. Department of Education
    We tried letting the States control education and we got unsatisfactory results. Why would we ever go back? States have proven unreliable in providing equal education for all and their failures hurt our countries potential. How selfish and short sighted can people get?

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    My, how socialism has changed in definition since I was a lad.
    Feel free to give me your definition, you have all day. i'm wasting far to much daylight sitting here.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Socialism or not I will gladly pay my current tax rate, hell even more, to live in an educated society.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Feel free to give me your definition, you have all day. i'm wasting far to much daylight sitting here.
    Do you not have access to a dictionary?

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    an educated population is critical to America's future; it touches pretty much every major issue, both public and private. it's absolutely a legitimate role of government.
    So?? That doesn't explain why critical marketable interests of people are a legitimate role of government to be involved in. It's simply saying that this service is important and therefore I feel it is too important to leave to the market. This same logic is being used on healthcare today and in both cases I don't find it very convincing.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post

    The Real Cost of Public Education | Cato Institute


    DAMNIT, I forgot to push the create a poll button, CRAP!
    A few of my students from socialist countries laugh at conservative programs like vouchers as they are socialist by nature, and then point to their arguments against healthcare. I have to admit they have a point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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