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Thread: Are public schools socialism?

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    At home.
    Well being home schooled perhaps why you fear public school.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Public schools are prisons, first and foremost. Why should it matter if socialist? Public and private K-12 alike, with few exceptions, both fail terribly.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Well being home schooled perhaps why you fear public school.
    I went to public schools. I hated them. You asked who taught me to read and write, that would be my parents.
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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    If a student does not have a prescription on file with the school health department/nurse, then how is the school to know if they are legal or not?
    I understand that.
    If it does happen, you can call a parent and ask.
    If the parent say's everything's cool, you can request a scrip and not punish the kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    But I was referring to illegal drugs.
    It's funny that even though schools do have a zero tolerance policy for illicit drugs, schools are one of the best places to get them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    That may be, but anyone not following rules or laws cannot be upset when they are punished for violating those laws. Whether you agree with bath salts being illegal is irrelevant to the fact they ARE illegal, and a zero tolerance policy is definitely an appropriate use of authority.
    Of course someone can be.
    Especially if those rules are arbitrary or unreasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    And here is where you are trying to assign your own values.

    For example, I'm a teacher in a public school, and there have been numerous times where a student has been defending themselves and not received punishment. However, it has to be TRUE self defense and not what so many kids call self-defense, which is where two kids get into an argument, maybe pushing and then fight.

    Your argument against public schools here is weak.
    That may be true in your school, but it most definitely wasn't in mine.
    If you fought, regardless of how it started, you got ISS or suspended.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    It sure does seem that way. You are criticizing public education, even saying "It provides a limited knowledge, for specific purpose. To perpetuate the myth that public school, is for their own good. In it's current form, I find that not to be the case."

    You most certainly are dismissing the good public education does, because you have what I consider to be an irrational fear of hierarchy of power, a phenomena which exists in just about everything we do in society.
    Well, it does.
    I don't necessarily have a problem with hierarchies and power, I have a problem with some of the inherent designs of the hierarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    What's irrational about telling kids they cannot bring illegal drugs on campus? What's irrational about telling kids they are not allowed to cause harm to another child? What's irrational about mitigating potential for lawsuits?
    Nothing is wrong with any of those things and then again, I never specifically said those things were a problem, aside from the self defense issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    You seem to have a very unrealistic view of how education works and an even more unrealistic view on how education should work. You don't seem to appreciate the behavior of children, the differences in learning abilities nor the differences in how education is valued amongst different groups of people.
    I never said how it should work.
    How have you divined how I think it should work?
    I do appreciate the differences in children, that's why there are problems with public ed.
    It's very difficult to educate 30 different kids, with 30 different learning abilities at one time.

    And yet, they still attempt to do this.
    I don't consider it heroic, I consider it foolish.
    Schools need some change and people need more options, without the financial disincentive that current public ed levies, if you don't go to your sectioned school.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Yes, it does, for anyone who truly wants to become educated.


    Poor ranking on international test misleading about US student performance, researcher finds

    There's some other good information in the article as well.

    We already do. *shrug*

    I'm pretty certain they don't have nearly as much power as you think they do...but if you don't do as the fed asks, you don't get fed money. So you have to decide if you want the money or not.
    So is it safe to assume you are OK with getting rid of the DOE?

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Then don't take the federal money for it. That is how it all gets bootstrapped together. Go out and advocate for tripling you property or sales tax and sever the federal cord. We intend to use private school until HS and then let the kids decide on their own what they want to do about HS. Most of the teachers at the school we are using are former public school teachers who left because they were tired of the crap they have to deal with and disruptive students who come to school just to taunt and terrorize others.
    I agree that the strings attached to fed money is the problem, it's like taking money from the Mafia. As far as raising state tax though, that fed money comes from taxing us so if we gave them correspondingly less we could then tax more on a local level where it would be more wisely spent.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    again, isn't that basically what we have now, where school funding is heavily dependent on local taxes?
    He's talking about officially institutionalizing it. We need to move away from that, not closer to it.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Services do cost money, your right. In the case of education WAY more than it should and for exceptionally ****ty results.
    Public education produces fine results, when you compare socieo-economic status in relation to other countries. In other words, the bigger problem is income inequality (and lack of support from far too many parents).

    My children's education thank god is NOT dependent on government. They will NEVER set foot in a public school as a student.
    It must be nice to be able to afford private education for your child (or even to be able to homeschool them). Unfortunately, most people cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Public schools are prisons, first and foremost.
    No doubt. After all, we regularly allow inmates to go home at 3 o'clock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I understand that.
    If it does happen, you can call a parent and ask.
    If the parent say's everything's cool, you can request a scrip and not punish the kid.
    And most schools will do that. And of the schools who do not, they will almost always inform students and parents at the beginning of the year they do not, at which point it becomes the fault of the parent/student, not the school.

    It's funny that even though schools do have a zero tolerance policy for illicit drugs, schools are one of the best places to get them.
    How is that funny?

    Of course someone can be. Especially if those rules are arbitrary or unreasonable.
    Rules against allowing illegal drugs on school campus are neither arbitrary nor unreasonable. And if you don't like the rules/laws, then you have the right to campaign against them. But to argue one should be exempt from rules simply because one doesn't like them is silly.

    That may be true in your school, but it most definitely wasn't in mine. If you fought, regardless of how it started, you got ISS or suspended.
    Then don't fight? Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. I'm 28 years old, and aside from the wrestling I've done with friends, I've never once come close to being in a fight.

    Well, it does. I don't necessarily have a problem with hierarchies and power, I have a problem with some of the inherent designs of the hierarchy.
    You seem to have a problem with the fact there is one at all. How else could a public school be run, except in its current form? Children need structure, children CRAVE structure. They want the discipline which comes from authority. There is nothing wrong with the hierarchy itself. When problems exist, they exist with individual people, not with the structure. It's a person problem, not a system problem.

    Nothing is wrong with any of those things and then again, I never specifically said those things were a problem, aside from the self defense issue.
    But those things are WHY the system exists as it does. If a child gets into a fight and gets beaten badly, the school could be sued for not protecting the child. If a student brings medication to school, does not report it and suffers a serious side effect, the school could be responsible.

    I never said how it should work. How have you divined how I think it should work? I do appreciate the differences in children, that's why there are problems with public ed. It's very difficult to educate 30 different kids, with 30 different learning abilities at one time.
    Fair enough.

    Then please provide your blueprint which works better. That way I'll be able to more intelligently discuss your ideas and how they compare with public education today.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    So is it safe to assume you are OK with getting rid of the DOE?
    Yes, but probably not for the same reason you want to get rid of it. By the way, you did note how well America actually does in public education, correct? Also remember that success is after removing students who attend a private school, students who usually are more motivated for educational success.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    He's talking about officially institutionalizing it. We need to move away from that, not closer to it.
    We need to move closer to a system where each school district is provided roughly the same amount of money per child. We cannot allow the majority of funding to exist on the local level, because some areas are obviously poorer than others. But we cannot give every school the same amount of state aid, because then schools in poorer areas have less money to spend per child.

    Funding education cannot be an exact science, especially in economic downturns. But we should always strive to treat all students equally.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 03-30-13 at 12:51 PM.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Public education produces fine results, when you compare socieo-economic status in relation to other countries. In other words, the bigger problem is income inequality (and lack of support from far too many parents).


    It must be nice to be able to afford private education for your child (or even to be able to homeschool them). Unfortunately, most people cannot.


    No doubt. After all, we regularly allow inmates to go home at 3 o'clock.
    And most schools will do that. And the schools who do not inform students and parents at the beginning of the year they do not, at which point it becomes the fault of the parent/student, not the school.

    How is that funny?

    Rules against allowing illegal drugs on school campus are neither arbitrary nor unreasonable. And if you don't like the rules/laws, then you have the right to campaign against them. But to argue one should be exempt from rules simply because one doesn't like them is silly.

    Then don't fight? Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. I'm 28 years old, and aside from the wrestling I've done with friends, I've never once come close to being in a fight.

    You have a problem with the fact there is one at all. How else could a public school be run, except in its current form? Children need structure, children CRAVE structure. They want the discipline which comes from authority. There is nothing wrong with the hierarchy itself. When problems exist, they exist with individual people, not with the structure. It's a person problem, not a system problem.

    But those things are WHY the system exists as it does. If a child gets into a fight and gets beaten badly, the school could be sued for not protecting the child. If a student brings medication to school, does not report it and suffers a serious side effect, the school could be responsible.

    Fair enough.

    Then please provide your blueprint which works better. That way I'll be able to more intelligently discuss your ideas and how they compare with public education today.



    Yes, but probably not for the same reason you want to get rid of it. By the way, you did note how well America actually does in public education, correct? Also remember that success is after removing students who attend a private school, students who usually are more motivated for educational success.

    We need to move closer to a system where each school district is provided roughly the same amount of money per child. We cannot allow the majority of funding to exist on the local level, because some areas are obviously poorer than others. But we cannot give every school the same amount of state aid, because then schools in poorer areas have less money to spend per child.

    Funding education cannot be an exact science, especially in economic downturns. But we should always strive to treat all students equally.
    So..if you have enough money to send your idiot daughter/son to public school..they will emerge to be a genius?

    £360,000 a year for Eton...

    Old Boy's network..

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    It would be socialism, and a good thing, if all children received the same quality of education ... right now educational experiences can be as different as night and day ... social and economic inequality will be the death of this country if we don't address it ... I hope no one calls me a socialist for saying that ...

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