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Thread: Are public schools socialism?

  1. #161
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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I have made my peace long ago at the notion that Foucault once said: "Knowledge is power." The status and thus power of teacher is that above student, and I believe necessarily so.
    Knowledge is power, that's why I left public school.
    It provides a limited knowledge, for specific purpose.
    To perpetuate the myth that public school, is for their own good.

    In it's current form, I find that not to be the case.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    People learn the truth. The rich loud,violent or popular tend to get what they want.
    I'm fine with educating people, even at public expense.
    I'm not fine with conditioning people to bow to all authority.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm fine with educating people, even at public expense.
    I'm not fine with conditioning people to bow to all authority.
    Good thing that isn't what public school does. I.question authority and I know others that do to. Many challenge authority in the U.S.

  4. #164
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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Of course they provide education, but it's littered with methods of conditioning.
    Rather than pushing real creative thought, with guidance, it's regimented creativity.

    For me, I don't believe people should be conditioned to follow authority, unless said authority is merited.
    And authority in schools isn't merited? How many different occupations in this country exist with no power structure? Everything in this country exists within a structure of power and always has. My guess is you wish to arbitrarily determine whose authority is merited, but unfortunately life simply does not play out that way.

    But at the end of the day, the primary purpose of public education is education. Public education teaches many things, even things they should not be responsible for, but the number one purpose is to provide the future generations with the tools they need for life.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Good thing that isn't what public school does. I.question authority and I know others that do to. Many challenge authority in the U.S.
    Right....
    I'll use this, because it's a good example.

    So a guy I know, had his house raided by the police.
    Now he didn't do anything wrong, they were looking for another person who used to live at that apartment years before he moved in.
    They tore through all his stuff, leaving a complete mess.
    When they realized they got the wrong place, that the guy no longer lived their, they left.

    They did not compensate him for the damages they caused, didn't apologize, didn't even say **** you very much.
    That's the kind of things we're talking about.
    Few do anything about that.
    Not banging drums on the internet or protesting, actually doing something.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    And authority in schools isn't merited? How many different occupations in this country exist with no power structure? Everything in this country exists within a structure of power and always has. My guess is you wish to arbitrarily determine whose authority is merited, but unfortunately life simply does not play out that way.

    But at the end of the day, the primary purpose of public education is education. Public education teaches many things, even things they should not be responsible for, but the number one purpose is to provide the future generations with the tools they need for life.
    Are zero tolerance policies merited?
    Sometimes, the school is quite wrong.

    I don't wish to arbitrarily determine when authority is merited.
    Most people can see when the authority is wrong, but few often call them on it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Are zero tolerance policies merited?
    It depends on that which is not being tolerated, but when it comes to drugs, for example, absolutely. Why wouldn't it be?

    Sometimes, the school is quite wrong.
    Because they punish students who break the law on their campus?

    Most people can see when the authority is wrong, but few often call them on it.
    On the contrary, most people have incredibly different opinions of the role of authority. You're wishing to assign your own, and then use that to criticize the concept of public education, completely ignoring all the incredible things public education does because you dislike authority.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    It depends on that which is not being tolerated, but when it comes to drugs, for example, absolutely. Why wouldn't it be?
    Which kind of drugs, otc's, prescription or illicit.
    Generally speaking, many schools offer the same punishment for possessing any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Because they punish students who break the law on their campus?
    Sometimes the rules or the law, shouldn't be followed.
    An example, is self defense in a conflict.

    The defender should not be punished, if they did not instigate the fight, yet the outcome is that they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    On the contrary, most people have incredibly different opinions of the role of authority. You're wishing to assign your own, and then use that to criticize the concept of public education, completely ignoring all the incredible things public education does because you dislike authority.
    I'm not dismissing all the things that it does.
    I have issues with the regimented way schools work.

    It's great kids learn stuff though, I don't have an issue with actual education, I have an issue with how it's presented, conducted and conditioning children to follow authority regardless of it being irrational.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Which kind of drugs, otc's, prescription or illicit.
    Generally speaking, many schools offer the same punishment for possessing any.
    If a student does not have a prescription on file with the school health department/nurse, then how is the school to know if they are legal or not?

    But I was referring to illegal drugs.

    Sometimes the rules or the law, shouldn't be followed.
    That may be, but anyone not following rules or laws cannot be upset when they are punished for violating those laws. Whether you agree with bath salts being illegal is irrelevant to the fact they ARE illegal, and a zero tolerance policy is definitely an appropriate use of authority.

    An example, is self defense in a conflict.

    The defender should not be punished, if they did not instigate the fight, yet the outcome is that they are.
    And here is where you are trying to assign your own values.

    For example, I'm a teacher in a public school, and there have been numerous times where a student has been defending themselves and not received punishment. However, it has to be TRUE self defense and not what so many kids call self-defense, which is where two kids get into an argument, maybe pushing and then fight.

    Your argument against public schools here is weak.

    I'm not dismissing all the things that it does.
    It sure does seem that way. You are criticizing public education, even saying "It provides a limited knowledge, for specific purpose. To perpetuate the myth that public school, is for their own good. In it's current form, I find that not to be the case."

    You most certainly are dismissing the good public education does, because you have what I consider to be an irrational fear of hierarchy of power, a phenomena which exists in just about everything we do in society.

    It's great kids learn stuff though, I don't have an issue with actual education, I have an issue with how it's presented, conducted and conditioning children to follow authority regardless of it being irrational.
    What's irrational about telling kids they cannot bring illegal drugs on campus? What's irrational about telling kids they are not allowed to cause harm to another child? What's irrational about mitigating potential for lawsuits?

    You seem to have a very unrealistic view of how education works and an even more unrealistic view on how education should work. You don't seem to appreciate the behavior of children, the differences in learning abilities nor the differences in how education is valued amongst different groups of people.

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    Re: Are public schools socialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not really qualified to teach a lot of the subjects my kids would learn in school. And I can still teach my children at home as part of the normal duties of a parent like all other parents do, the two are mutually exclusive.



    How does it make market sense to run a free school? What kind of business is going to make money giving away its product for free?



    What do we do with people who cannot teach their own children due to work or other reasons, and what would they do with their kids during the day while they were at work, and what if they couldn't afford a private tutor?
    The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Most of the advanced subjects are in later years and you could hire a tutor or any other number of solutions to cover those.

    And I am going to be blunt, here. If people have children and want them to have an education, they WILL see to it one way or another. Like they do when they need to make sure their children are fed and clothed and housed. If they don't care they wont do a thing. Just like now. Most of what I see against the idea is simply a lack of will. You don't want to. There's very little in the way of children being able to get an education regardless of whether or not there are public schools. Its simply a matter of will.

    We have public schools now. My children will NEVER set foot in a public school as a student, ever.

    I could imagine a perk employers dangling, to get and KEEP good employees would be an education subsidy for their employees children or if they are large enough run their own school. I could imagine if a employer had an excellent school program they would have a very long line of people wanting to work for them.
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