View Poll Results: Could you accept no government recognized marriages as a compromise?

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  • I oppose SSM but could accept no government recognized marriage as a compromise.

    6 7.59%
  • I support SSM but could accept no government reconized marriage as a compromise

    24 30.38%
  • I oppose SSM It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    7 8.86%
  • I support SSM. It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    42 53.16%
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Thread: Same sex marriage compromise

  1. #471
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Really? I thought it was the role of the parties to a contract to recognize and uphold their contractual agreements. To my understanding the government only gets involved usually if a party to a contract breaches their obligations and courts are asked to compell the party who has not upheld their agreement either through force of law of order some other adequate remedy. That is unless the government is itself a party to the contract then the government must recognize and uphold their obligations. I could be wrong. I always learn new things here.

    I agree with that, but because marriage becomes a legal issue (tax benefits ect.) and also in the course of getting a divorce, it seems that the government should simply recognize such a legal agreement between consenting parties, and only get involved in disputes, rather than creating or defining subjective rules for who may enter into marriage.
    In matters of style, swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

  2. #472
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    So then you disagree with the part of the Declaration of Independence that people "...are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."?


    What Creator?

  3. #473
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually no. Most people have at least some laws they do not support and they work to change those laws by whatever means are available, this includes going through the court systems where available to have laws struck down. They may obey the laws, but supporting a law and obeying the law are two completely different things.



    "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time."

  4. #474
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time."
    What crime? We are discussing civil marriage, not a criminal statute.

    Was Rosa Parks wrong? What about the Lovings? They not only did the crime and the time, but their breaking the laws led to many positive changes in the advancement of civil rights and struck down the laws they broke because they were wrong.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #475
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    What Creator?
    Not worried about you on that question. You've already established that you don't believe a right exists unless it's written as a law.

  6. #476
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    So then you disagree with the part of the Declaration of Independence that people "...are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."?
    They are words. There is no "creator" and rights don't work that way.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #477
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    They are words. There is no "creator" and rights don't work that way.
    Fair enough. You are coming from a completely different premise than I am. I will grant you your logic based upon that premise. My focus wasn't so much on the "creator" aspect as it was on the concept that we do have certain basic rights that are not granted by law but protected by it.

  8. #478
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Fair enough. You are coming from a completely different premise than I am. I will grant you your logic based upon that premise. My focus wasn't so much on the "creator" aspect as it was on the concept that we do have certain basic rights that are not granted by law but protected by it.
    The problem is, this isn't a premise, it deals with reality. There simply is no evidence that rights exist or operate the way that many libertarians wish they did. It's just a bunch of philosophical masturbation, not borne out by facts or logic, only by wishful thinking and faith. The question is, where did these "rights" come from, what guarantees them and how have you worked out exactly what these rights are, using only evidence and reason? It's something that I've yet to see a single libertarian be able to answer logically.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #479
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The problem is, this isn't a premise, it deals with reality. There simply is no evidence that rights exist or operate the way that many libertarians wish they did. It's just a bunch of philosophical masturbation, not borne out by facts or logic, only by wishful thinking and faith. The question is, where did these "rights" come from, what guarantees them and how have you worked out exactly what these rights are, using only evidence and reason? It's something that I've yet to see a single libertarian be able to answer logically.


    How many libertarians don't know (In their mind.) that it's everyone's God-given right to exclude all Black people from their restaurants? (Not because they're prejudiced, but strictly for property rights, of course.)

    When they manage to rewrite the U.S. Constitution and make that legal, I'll start paying a little attention to that minority group.

    Until then, I'll give them the respect that they deserve. Which is equal to zero.



    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

  10. #480
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Again, yes you did, right here:

    You specified "two". You went out of your way to include an arbitrary limit on the number of consenting adults in the union. That's bigoted and very intolerant.
    You may have wanted me to make some other statement, but I did not. Now that we know you troll, I will just say this: I made a statement about what I support, that does not say anything about what I do not support. Being in favor of a group of two is not a statement of how I feel about a group of 3, 5, 25, or even your group of 1.

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