View Poll Results: Could you accept no government recognized marriages as a compromise?

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  • I oppose SSM but could accept no government recognized marriage as a compromise.

    6 7.59%
  • I support SSM but could accept no government reconized marriage as a compromise

    24 30.38%
  • I oppose SSM It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    7 8.86%
  • I support SSM. It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    42 53.16%
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Thread: Same sex marriage compromise

  1. #31
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    The government not recognizing any marriages is exactly what I want, so no real compromise for me there.

  2. #32
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    State sponsered marriage is convient. It basically acts as a large stack of legal documents for one person. The reality is a lot of people decide to spend their life with one person and share resources. I'd be fine with what S&M mentioned...some way to virtually label someone as having all the rights afforded to spouses now but not sure how that is anything other than calling marriage something else.
    Couldn't same fee civil union licenses accomplish this?

    I'm of the opinion this really is about advancing a change culture and efforts to destigmatize homosexuality socially.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  3. #33
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    It shouldn't be expensive, and there's no reason it has to be time consuming.

    You can have a pre-drawn standard set of rights for X situation, or you can personalize it if you want to take more time.

    That's how marriage works. So why can't it work that way for people not in a relationship?
    There are a lot of benefits....some most people don't even consider on a day to day basis. Beyond writing them up you would also have to maintain those documents.

    There's also the fact...most people decide to couple up for the long term and create some sort of "lifelong" partnership. To raise children, to not be lonely for a lot of different reasons.

    I disagree with CanadaJohn on this. I believe the state has recognized and passed laws to make something that has always been done at some level easier.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  4. #34
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Couldn't same fee civil union licenses accomplish this?

    I'm of the opinion this really is about advancing a change culture and efforts to destigmatize homosexuality socially.
    Sure...I agree with you as well. There's the obvious benefits of a civil union or marriage for two individuals that want to partner up for the long term...but there is the whole issue regarding one group not afforded the same thing as another. That's entirely the problem. It's like African Americans going into a diner that they weren't allowed. There may be other diners, they could get food somewhere else if they wanted, it may even be a crappy diner....but the fact they weren't allowed in the diner based on skin color was the issue.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  5. #35
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I personally wouldn't be surprised if faith-based groups started ballot initiatives to get the state out of the marriage business is the Supreme Court lifts the ban on same sex marriage.
    Never, ever, ever, ever going to happen, nobody is going to vote to give up the benefits they get from being married.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #36
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The government not recognizing any marriages is exactly what I want, so no real compromise for me there.
    Just an entirely stupid, unrealistic idea.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #37
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    There are a lot of benefits....some most people don't even consider on a day to day basis. Beyond writing them up you would also have to maintain those documents.

    There's also the fact...most people decide to couple up for the long term and create some sort of "lifelong" partnership. To raise children, to not be lonely for a lot of different reasons.

    I disagree with CanadaJohn on this. I believe the state has recognized and passed laws to make something that has always been done at some level easier.
    So have 3 choices.

    1. A whole enchilada document much like a marriage license.

    2. A bunch of pre-made smaller documents for individual issues.

    3. Write your own.

    The state did not always recognize marriage as an institution. The reason they started to was in order to discriminate against people. And they're still doing it now.

    Lots of people partner for life and raise children without a marriage license. If I ever partner for life, that is how I will be doing it.

  8. #38
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Just an entirely stupid, unrealistic idea.
    Please go on. I personally see nothing unrealistic about my idea.

  9. #39
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Please go on. I personally see nothing unrealistic about my idea.
    The unrealistic rarely do.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #40
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Unless the government disapproves, like if your partner is the same sex, or if you are in a polyamorous relationship with more than one partner. Then the government says, "No, your relationship is not legitimate, and you don't have the right to designate your own rights without monstrous cost and time, and even then, we might still deny you."

    And back in the day, they did the same thing to interracial couples.

    Having marriage as a legal institution which controls your ability to assign certain rights guarantees that there will be unfair discrimination. It also invalidates the individual's rights because they can only use them in certain circumstances.



    Sometimes, but actually of more concern to me is that marriage is actually the main bar to assigning one's rights.

    To take a small example, if you are married, you cannot redirect your 401k account to someone other than your spouse without your spouse's approval. Why does your spouse pull rank on who gets your money?

    Apart from the institution just being flat-out bigoted, one of the reasons I will never marry is because it threatens my intellectual property rights, as a writer.
    Which is why SSM is in court. It's not legitimate to bar same sex and earlier, interracial couples from marriage. I have a problem with polygamous relationships. I don't believe it is in society's best interest to support them.

    So if you don't want monstrous cost of time, and money, then why deny the ability for a couple to enter into an easy to obtain (excepting SS couples for now) contract? What purpose is there in that?

    You cannot redirect your 401k to someone else without spousal approval because that comes under the umbrella of marital assets. It assumes that both are contributing to that account over the course of the relationship, which is not a poor assumption. One may be earning the greater pay, but the other is providing support in the relationship that contributes. It goes both ways, men and women. Either can be the top earner. Maybe you haven't seen someone get ripped off during a divorce. Or put a spouse through school, only to be dumped at some later point. (Not me, I assure you.) I have seen it and the earning power of that spouse was greatly enhanced by the one who helped buy and enable their education. They "earned" a portion of that 401k and it shouldn't be allowed to be taken from them without consent.

    I can see why you wouldn't want to get married. I don't see a work around for your IP rights. I just don't understand why you want to do away with marriage. Don't enter into one and your problem is solved. Your IP rights and your 401k is protected. I'm not sure what piece of paper you are looking for that isn't already available, as a single person.
    Last edited by Gina; 03-26-13 at 06:15 PM.

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