View Poll Results: Could you accept no government recognized marriages as a compromise?

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  • I oppose SSM but could accept no government recognized marriage as a compromise.

    6 7.59%
  • I support SSM but could accept no government reconized marriage as a compromise

    24 30.38%
  • I oppose SSM It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    7 8.86%
  • I support SSM. It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    42 53.16%
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Thread: Same sex marriage compromise

  1. #21
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You can do that now it's just expensive and time consuming to draw up legal documents for each individual right that a spouse assumes. With a marriage document bam....someone has a list of rights conveyed to them with a 50 dollar marriage license (may vary by state). It's convient.
    It shouldn't be expensive, and there's no reason it has to be time consuming.

    You can have a pre-drawn standard set of rights for X situation, or you can personalize it if you want to take more time.

    That's how marriage works. So why can't it work that way for people not in a relationship?

  2. #22
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You can do that now it's just expensive and time consuming to draw up legal documents for each individual right that a spouse assumes. With a marriage document bam....someone has a list of rights conveyed to them with a 50 dollar marriage license (may vary by state). It's convient.
    You beat me to it.

  3. #23
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    And you have to execute each document separately.

    Marriage is a one stop, all-purpose contract. In addition to marriage, what you suggest, fine, but not in place of it. It exists now for the purpose of status and protection, for a reason.
    That's how it is now, but it doesn't have to be that way. Just have a standard contract for a particular issue just like we do for marriage. If the person feels like it, then they can take more time and make their own.

    There's no reason it has to take any more time than just signing the dotted line. Just because it does now doesn't mean that's how it must be.

  4. #24
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    That's how it is now, but it doesn't have to be that way. Just have a standard contract for a particular issue just like we do for marriage. If the person feels like it, then they can take more time and make their own.

    There's no reason it has to take any more time than just signing the dotted line. Just because it does now doesn't mean that's how it must be.
    Are you arguing against marriage? Or just for the ability to file documents to cover people not in a marriage?

  5. #25
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Are you arguing against marriage? Or just the ability to file documents to cover people not in a marriage?
    I am arguing against the concept of government getting to decide whether our relationships are legitimate.

  6. #26
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    I support SSM at the state level. I also support the states' rights and the voters' rights to define marriage either way (for or against SSM). I'm fine with a civil union compromise that applies nationally.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  7. #27
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'm not aware of any particular wording in your constitution as it relates to marriage so I presume it's a states' rights issue but I could be wrong. However, I've been saying for years, and repeatedly here, there would be no controversy, gay people would be no more interested in a marriage certificate than straight people, if the government didn't use marriage as a tool of social engineering and a qualifier for certain government benefits and goodies.
    There is no constitutional right to marriage at the federal level. However, the constitution does require equal protection under the law, which I think is the argument being made by the SSM attorneys.

    As I understand but have not verified the history, some states began issuing marriage licenses in the 1800s as a way to regulate interracial marriages. Before then marriage certificates were issued by churches and synagogs just like baptismal and bar mitzvah certificates and possibly still remained an option. I once saw my great grand parents' marriage certificate from the 1880s and noticed there were no government markings or references. Then the states realized marriage license fees could be an important revenue source and began allowing ministers to authenticate the state issued marriage licenses. Nevertheless, its not an original government activity.

    Funny to me is I asked this same question on a different board a few years ago and all the pro-gay marriage people were okay with the compromise and all the traditional marriage people were not willing to compromise. It seems like public momentum in support for or opposition to people's preferences could be playing a role in the responses. Of course, different people so there's no way to know for sure but its interesting.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 03-26-13 at 05:50 PM.
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I am arguing against the concept of government getting to decide whether our relationships are legitimate.
    Ok, I thought your point had changed over the last couple posts.

    The government doesn't decide that our relationships are legitimate. We do when we enter into a marriage contract.

    Is there a bar to single people assigning rights and responsibilities to whom they want? I have power to exercise the advance directives of my parents. My gay uncle and his partner took steps to insure that each could attend the other in the hospital without interference. Later my mom had some sort of standing, after my uncle had passed, to make decisions for his partner when he was passing. All took lawyers and signatures, where if they had been permitted to marry, it would have been settled on that date.

  9. #29
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's a dumb idea. If you think for one second that the people who hate gay marriage would ever accept losing all of the benefits heterosexuals get by being married, you're out of your mind. You'd have rioting in the streets. It won't happen.
    I personally wouldn't be surprised if faith-based groups started ballot initiatives to get the state out of the marriage business if the Supreme Court lifts the ban on same sex marriage.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 03-26-13 at 06:02 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Ok, I thought your point had changed over the last couple posts.

    The government doesn't decide that our relationships are legitimate. We do when we enter into a marriage contract.
    Unless the government disapproves, like if your partner is the same sex, or if you are in a polyamorous relationship with more than one partner. Then the government says, "No, your relationship is not legitimate, and you don't have the right to designate your own rights without monstrous cost and time, and even then, we might still deny you."

    And back in the day, they did the same thing to interracial couples.

    Having marriage as a legal institution which controls your ability to assign certain rights guarantees that there will be unfair discrimination. It also invalidates the individual's rights because they can only use them in certain circumstances.

    Is there a bar to single people assigning rights and responsibilities to whom they want? I have power to exercise the advance directives of my parents. My gay uncle and his partner took steps to insure that each could attend the other in the hospital without interference. Later my mom had some sort of standing, after my uncle had passed, to make decisions for his partner when we was passing. All took lawyers and signatures, where if they had been permitted to marry, it would have been settled on that date.
    Sometimes. And the government conveniently forces people in relationships they disapprove of to be labeled "single." This is a huge problem for couples raising children.

    Also, it's much harder to assign your medical rights to non-family.

    Of just as much concern to me is that marriage is actually the main bar to assigning one's rights.

    To take a small example, if you are married, you cannot redirect your 401k account to someone other than your spouse without your spouse's approval. Why does your spouse pull rank on who gets your money?

    Apart from the institution just being flat-out bigoted, one of the reasons I will never marry is because it threatens my intellectual property rights, as a writer.

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