View Poll Results: Could you accept no government recognized marriages as a compromise?

Voters
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  • I oppose SSM but could accept no government recognized marriage as a compromise.

    6 7.59%
  • I support SSM but could accept no government reconized marriage as a compromise

    24 30.38%
  • I oppose SSM It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    7 8.86%
  • I support SSM. It's a function of government to recognize legitimate marriages. No compromise.

    42 53.16%
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Thread: Same sex marriage compromise

  1. #271
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    What stops them now? I don't see how SSM changes this issue. Maybe you could do a new poll on ‘Does government recognition of any marriages etc. abuse single people?’
    (Oh, I should have looks at how many posts have been made.)
    Whether it's valid or not, my point was related to the traditional government social engineering involved in promoting traditional marriage and procreation as government policy through tax and and other benefits accruing to those in the traditional nuclear family. If you provide through the courts that traditional marriage discriminates against those who wish to marry a same sex partner, what's to stop the next step being providing the tax and benefit advantages to singles who are live-in, commonlaw couples of either sex who just don't have the government issued married paper or as well to those who are just roommates of either sex.

    You can't design social engineering around the traditional nuclear family yet have the courts determine that other arrangements, currently same sex marriage, are of equal legal status.

  2. #272
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Whether it's valid or not, my point was related to the traditional government social engineering involved in promoting traditional marriage and procreation as government policy through tax and and other benefits accruing to those in the traditional nuclear family. If you provide through the courts that traditional marriage discriminates against those who wish to marry a same sex partner, what's to stop the next step being providing the tax and benefit advantages to singles who are live-in, commonlaw couples of either sex who just don't have the government issued married paper or as well to those who are just roommates of either sex.

    You can't design social engineering around the traditional nuclear family yet have the courts determine that other arrangements, currently same sex marriage, are of equal legal status.
    But is the very concept of a standard nuclear family a notion of social engineering?

  3. #273
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    But is the very concept of a standard nuclear family a notion of social engineering?
    Yes, it is. It's what the advancements of our civilization was based on.

  4. #274
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The ideal solution would be "civil unions for everyone" - with marriage (holy matrimony) left to churches, synagogues and mosques, where it belongs.

    But since nobody is promoting such solution, gay marriage it is.
    To be perfectly honest, I've never felt great about government involved validating the sacred institution of marriage. Compare to government declaring a baptism valid. Just my humble perspective.
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  5. #275
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    To be perfectly honest, I've never felt great about government involved validating the sacred institution of marriage. Compare to government declaring a baptism valid. Just my humble perspective.
    That's just the way it goes. Without the Federal government to validate it, any state can invalidate it.

  6. #276
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Marriage has long been about power and property. It is only recently, historically speaking that marriage has been about love. Yes typically marriage is between a man and a woman because that is what also produced heirs. But there have been occasions in our history when a marriage was granted between members of the same gender or even members of the same family, not for the purpose of producing heirs, but to designate the heir and transfer money and power.
    Marriage has always been about a man and a woman as husband and wife.

    Anything else has never been marriage.

    Your spin is irrelevent.
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  7. #277
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    This is a nonsensical "debate" topic. Courts have to decide divisions of property and parental rights towards children of parents and legal guardians who aren't married all the time. The existence of a marriage license rarely is relevant, but when it is then statutes explain what the relevancy is.

    Divisions of property and issues of children should be exactly the same - whether the parents are married or not, straight or gay, and in terms of property however many people are in the failed relationship.

    Courts decide all manners of civil disputes without specific statutes, and if there are no specific statutes then the principles of "common law" is the relevant law for the court to use.

    Courts involving in the economics and parentage issues in relationship break ups is NO reason for government to be involved in deciding what relationships are allowed, rewarded, punished or will be recognized by government - no more than the government has any reason to involve in private contracts - though will decide contract disputes later if brought to court.
    Yes, courts do that all the time and it takes extra time, money and effort to establish there was a relationship, how long and what it consisted of. I have family in this position right now. The absence of marriage complicates. It certainly doesn't make things go silky smooth, but it establishes the relationship and rights.

    I agree, they should be the same, but the hoops one must jump through are there to protect the litigants. Not just anyone can take one's property, money and kids without establishing their right to do so. Under a marriage, standing is assumed.

    It favors the government and society to not permit some kinds of relationships. Polygamy, incest and adult sex with children are detrimental to society and the parties involved.

    People don't always do the right thing. We have laws and use contracts so that there is legal redress for damages.

  8. #278
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    And by the way, when the hell did "it's too haaard" become a good argument, even assuming it actually was that hard?
    When it comes to liberals saying it's "too hard" to deport the 20 million illegals who are trespassing, forging, and stealing American jobs/classrooms/other resources, committing egregious injustices against American citizens .. that's when.

    The specifics in the statutes that you decry are there to promote civilized behavior in advance and instead of allowing personal/interpersonal/social/socio-economic/geopolitical boundary violations to run amuck and overflow the courts afterwards when continuations of court appearances would average three years instead of three months.

    Without them, there'd likely be a culture of rape in America.
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  9. #279
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    The US Supreme Court is presently considering a ruling that could lift opposite gender requirements for marriage in the US. Most people have firm opinions on this matter but I'm curious could our positions on the subject leave room for a compromise all could accept. If your perspective on same sex marriage is not constitutionally validated, could you accept government not recognizing any marriage as a compromise, assuming of course this wouldn't necessarily be your preferred option?
    I voted "other".

    We should be infinity more concerned with the divorce rate than ssm. If, however, we're going to give same-sex couples marriage rights, then it should be the full monti or nothing at all. No middle ground compromise. All or nothing.

    Since both pro and con ssm are ignoring the real problem, I hope you both loose. A pox on both your houses.

  10. #280
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    Re: Same sex marriage compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Marriage has always been about a man and a woman as husband and wife.

    Anything else has never been marriage.

    Your spin is irrelevent.
    Marriage has always been about one thing...until it wasn't. Slavery was always the norm, until it wasn't.

    Evolve.

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