View Poll Results: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

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Thread: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

  1. #171
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    Re: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Well, actually....



    Office of the Historian - Milestones - 1899-1913 - The Philippine-American War

    If you get upset at the concept of revisionist history, you probably should stay away from history as a subject.
    And your point is ?

    A few years ago in fact going back over 110 years it was the "Philippine Insurrection" not the "Philippine-American War." Before Obama and his leftist got in to power there was no such thing as the "Philippine-American War. If you were to have even googled it a few years ago nothing would have came up.

    I first noticed maybe two years ago when all reference to the "Philippine Insurrection" on all government websites were being changed in the name of political correctness to the "Philippine-American War."

    But you go to any historically correct history website you will find no war named the "Philippine-American War." Only liberal revisionist history websites will you find it. Go in to any library in America and you will not find one book published before 2011 that has any thing dealing with a war named the "Philippine-American War."

    Just this morning on the DP I was looking at a thread under the "Military" threads about a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient. Go to the CMH website and every soldier or sailor who was awarded the CMO in the Philippine from 1899-1903 says the "Philippine Insurrection." -> CMOHS.org - Full Archive

    It was last year that Wikipedia changed the title of the topic "Philippine Insurrection" and renamed it the "Philippine-American War." From their talk page link: -> Talk:Philippine

    "> Removal of "Philippine Insurrection"I believe that at the time this war started on February 4, 1899, the First Philippine Republic was already a state, which had convened a Congress by September of 1898 and declared a new Constitution by January of 1899. Spain had no right to cede the Philippines during the Treaty of Paris since Spanish presence was defunct ever since America occupied Manila. Therefore, this must not be also known as Philippine Insurrection which was fought between American soldiers and Filipino revolutionaries. The Revolutionary Army was replaced by a regular Filipino army as early as June of 1898. Hope someone supports me here. Arius1998 (talk) 12:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

    Oppose. The alternative names are names by which the subject is also known under. Even if they might be technically wrong, as long as that name was once (or still is) used widely in some sources, it needs to be mentioned. In this case, while I agree that this was properly a war, it was widely known as the "Philippine Insurrection" to the American media. Therefore it must be retained. See MOS:LEADALT. The title "Philippine–American War" and the succeeding paragraphs should be enough to clarify that the "insurrection" moniker is incorrect.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 13:21, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
    Then maybe we could just omit the term Filipino revolutionaries if Wikipedia rules would let the Philippine Insurrection remain. I believe that the Filipino army, or at least the ones under the Aguinaldo government, had been a regular fighting force under an organized military hierarchy from June 1898 to November 1899. Arius1998 (talk) 03:18, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
    The term "revolutionary" in this sense does mean against the Americans, imo. But to the previous revolution against Spain, the term is merely carried over since they were the revolutonaries who helped the US in the war.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 12:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC) "<

    I wonder what the liberals plan to reneme the Vietnam War as ?

  2. #172
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    Re: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    And your point is ?

    A few years ago in fact going back over 110 years it was the "Philippine Insurrection" not the "Philippine-American War." Before Obama and his leftist got in to power there was no such thing as the "Philippine-American War. If you were to have even googled it a few years ago nothing would have came up.
    And St. Augustine rejected the Roman conceptualization of its fall, then long after St. Augustine's City of God-scholars criticized St. Augustine. Welcome to the discipline of history. You're also incorrect. I have journal submissions from decades back (at least since the 1970s) that label the war in that way.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 03-25-13 at 09:57 PM.
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    Re: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

    Most so-called political correctness is simply treating people politely and with respect. Being polite and respectful includes referring to people in the manner they prefer. If that is a problem for you it is probably because you are a bigoted jerk.

    Enforcing political correctness can be a violation of free speech if it is done by government. Many nations have anti-hate speech laws, which I oppose. Sometimes a hateful comment is simply an uncomfortable truth, such as when one criticizes a religion or other organization. Telling the truth should never be illegal, even if you are wrong. (except for libel) Besides I think it is best to let bigots spew freely so we know who they are.

    The most likely scenario in the USA where political correctness may be enforced by government is hate speech bans on publicly funded college campuses. I oppose those for the same reason I oppose hate speech laws.

    Non-governmental blowback from un-PC speech doesn't just come from the left. Remember what happened to Bill Maher and the Dixie chicks ten years ago?

    There are many things one can not say in the mainstream media besides making bigoted comments; you generally can not criticize any religion or religion in general, you can not criticize patriotism in general, you can not criticize our nation as a whole, you can not advocate any form of unconventional sex, and you can't criticize materialism, capitalism or the rich in general. Yes, you may hear some of these opinions expressed during a panel discussion or debate, but you won't hear any of those sentiments coming from any regular participant or host of a TV show. (unless you're on the comedy channel)

    We also still have taboos on specific "bad" words and open discussion on sexuality or certain bodily functions. We don't call those rules anti-PC rules, because they are old rules, but they are still taboos.

    This is usually not defined as a PC issue, but it should be addressed. I believe that the laws should protect employers from refusing to hire, firing, demoting and disciplining employees for their expressive activities. Perhaps some exceptions need to be made for very specific situations-i.e. an open racist arguably should not be allowed to be a teacher in a public school with diverse students.

  4. #174
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    Re: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Is it just one white beard scratching liberal or is there a panel of leftist who decide how we should talk ?
    I thought it was Republicans/Fox News when the Dixie Chicks criticized how our Republican government led us into a war under false pretenses? Or was it when there were many people in this country who hated the idea of going into war and then were told they were unpatriotic because they didn't support a war with no justification?

    That is to say, your attempt to make it a "left vs. right" issue is a waste of time. Both side engage in the "how dare he/she say that". Heck, Republicans literally took President Obama's words completely out of context and tried to bash him over the head with "you didn't build that". Apparently, Republicans found it politically incorrect to insinuate business owners have ever benefited from any government projects. This, of course, came after Democrats took Romney's "I'm not concerned about the very poor" statement completely out of context to try and show him as a rich, out of touch elitist.

    I'm not arguing it's the fault of Republicans/right or Democrats/left, I'm saying it's something which happens from both sides. Your insinuation it is only the fault of "the left" is simply false.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
    But I am talking about political correctness in general.
    No, you're talking about political correctness suppressing freedom of speech, a right which is granted under the 1st Amendment. Absent the 1st Amendment, which only pertains to government, the Starbucks CEO has just as much right to ask traditional marriage supporters to leave as Chick Fil A CEO has to support traditional marriage.

    OK, trying to put words in my mouth does not win you any points. I was comparing the hypocrisy of the left wing media in regards to the two stories. One being politically correct in support of the gay community, and the other being politically incorrect because it involves a person support for Christianity. The two stories are similar in nature, but the one doesn't fit the liberal narative so the left wing media will ignore it.
    I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You're trying to say the two situations are similar. They are not similar at all. There is no hypocrisy. If the position of the mainstream media is equality under the law, as is a position I tend to take, then Dan Cathy saying he supports traditional marriage is implying he wishes to deny marriage to homosexuals. Thus, not equal. The Starbucks CEO simply said he does not want business from those who do not believe in equality.

    It is not hypocritical, they are not at all similar. If the Starbucks CEO had come out and said, "I support only homosexual marriage and don't think opposite sex couples should be allowed to marry", THEN it would have a similar story, and I bet the media would have jumped all over that as well.

    Both actually said they have a certain belief, one for Christianity the other for homosexuality.
    This is completely false. Dan Cathy stated he supported traditional marriage, which implies he does not support homosexual marriage. The Starbucks CEO has no problem with heterosexuals or homosexuals, just with people who wish to deny other people the same rights they have.

    Completely different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    The participation trophy is a perfect example of sending the message to kids that they deserve something even when they are unsuccessful, instead of letting them go home with nothing and teaching them that they need to try harder next year.
    No, it is not. The participation trophy is to encourage children to keep with the endeavor they were not successful at. It's there to keep a child motivated in whatever they are doing, to keep the sting of the loss from preventing them from quitting. Winning is more than enough motivation to work harder, but making everyone feel good about what they are doing is motivation to keep them involved.

    There's nothing wrong with giving a participation trophy, just as there is nothing wrong with not giving one. But to simply say it's a terrible way to teach children is unequivocally false. What's far more harmful to children is teaching them winning is the only thing that matters and that one should win at all costs. That's a far worse lesson to teach.

    This is why the kids graduating college right now think that just because they finished that they are going to be handed a job right away.
    As someone who deals with students graduating college, in college and preparing for college on a regular basis, this statement does not match my experience at all.

    They should even start looking for employment up to two years before they graduate.
    Most kids are employed DURING college.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    My only issue is that there are plenty of parents who fail to teach these responsibilities, but they'll complain if the school punishes them for misbehavior.
    This I agree with 100%.

    My wife was teaching at a high school where she had to quit because of the disobedience. The worst part was that she was told she could only give one referral per day.
    I've been teaching for over five years, and I probably don't give out an average of one referral in an eight week quarter. Perhaps a different age and different demographic, but I'm just noting this.

    By the second day of lecture, my wife was pushed by a female student who thought she could insist that the classroom door be left open during lecture. I blame their parents, first and foremost. However, when parents fail we can't simply tolerate it. If they can't act properly in the classroom and disrupt the education of others then I say they need to be sent to boot camp.
    I agree with this as well. Public education should be a right for all children. It should be supported by everyone in this country, far more than it already is. But just because it's your right to go to school, that doesn't mean a child should get to act like a jerk. I fully favor a three strikes and you're suspended for a semester rule. Let's get troublemakers out of class and let those who are truly interested in learning do so.

    I also support punishment for the parents if their child does not meet certain standards on standardized tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Most so-called political correctness is simply treating people politely and with respect. Being polite and respectful includes referring to people in the manner they prefer.
    Very well said.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 03-25-13 at 11:25 PM.

  5. #175
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    Re: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    No, it is not. The participation trophy is to encourage children to keep with the endeavor they were not successful at. It's there to keep a child motivated in whatever they are doing, to keep the sting of the loss from preventing them from quitting. Winning is more than enough motivation to work harder, but making everyone feel good about what they are doing is motivation to keep them involved.

    There's nothing wrong with giving a participation trophy, just as there is nothing wrong with not giving one. But to simply say it's a terrible way to teach children is unequivocally false. What's far more harmful to children is teaching them winning is the only thing that matters and that one should win at all costs. That's a far worse lesson to teach.
    I certainly don't condone winning at all costs. However, I don't believe in teaching them that there is nothing wrong with not succeeding. That doesn't mean you go about it negatively and make them feel like a failure. You convince them how badly they want to earn it next year, and that practice is the only way to improve their chance of success. A trophy for participation is like fools gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    As someone who deals with students graduating college, in college and preparing for college on a regular basis, this statement does not match my experience at all.

    Most kids are employed DURING college.
    Maybe they're working at a local shop; most are not working during college in a position related to their anticipated major and career field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I've been teaching for over five years, and I probably don't give out an average of one referral in an eight week quarter. Perhaps a different age and different demographic, but I'm just noting this.
    This was at an inner city high school. She only applied there because she had just moved into the US. Shortly after she left, she had no problems getting a teaching position at the local community college. Parents complain about not having good teachers at inner city schools. They need to teach their kids respect and realize that their kids' hoodlum behavior is what drives the good teachers away. I knew before I even graduated high school that I was going to teach no lower than college level so I wouldn't have to deal with that.
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  6. #176
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    Re: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I certainly don't condone winning at all costs. However, I don't believe in teaching them that there is nothing wrong with not succeeding.
    I agree completely. However, my guess is we'll differ entirely on what we consider to be success.

    You convince them how badly they want to earn it next year, and that practice is the only way to improve their chance of success.
    Success has nothing to do with winning. That is such a terrible concept which has permeated our culture.

    A trophy for participation is like fools gold.
    But a trophy for hard work and effort, a trophy for dedication and intensity is not.

    Maybe they're working at a local shop; most are not working during college in a position related to their anticipated major and career field.
    The point I thought you were making is that college kids think a job will be handed to them, without any other real effort. Most college kids are already putting in the effort in hopes of a job when they graduate. That's hardly a "hand everything to me for nothing" attitude.

    This was at an inner city high school.
    I kind of figured. Definitely a different demographic.

    Parents complain about not having good teachers at inner city schools. They need to teach their kids respect and realize that their kids' hoodlum behavior is what drives the good teachers away.
    Exactly. The problem with schools is far less about the parents than it is about society.

    I knew before I even graduated high school that I was going to teach no lower than college level so I wouldn't have to deal with that.
    I teach 4th, 5th and 6th grades. I never have any problems, and I certainly have plenty of students with terrible home lives. But the school I work at, overall, does not have that kind of overall discipline issue.

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    Re: Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

    It's weird to see people arguing that utilizing free speech to criticize the free speech of others is a violation of free speech. Waah waaah people are calling me out when I'm an asshole, my freeee speeeeeech wwaaaaaahhh! Free speech means I get to shout out my opinion without challenge, damnit! Waaaaaaah!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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