View Poll Results: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

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Thread: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

  1. #51
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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    You have to consider the source, which does prove that it's hard, if not impossible, to separate a movement from it's participants. And those who don't add flavor to their oatmeal need to be suppressed and eventually wiped out. I will not be made out to be liar.
    I agree. Death to bland oatmeal eaters.

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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    I like how not being meek while demanding equal rights makes a person "militant." "Militant" in this context is just the 21st century version of "uppity."
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I like how not being meek while demanding equal rights makes a person "militant." "Militant" in this context is just the 21st century version of "uppity."
    Who, besides you, defined militant as "not being meek while demanding equal rights" in this thread?

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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    In other words, if you support the principles, ideals and arguments of a movement, but you find the movement's advocates repulsive, does that affect your willingness to support that movement? Similarly, if you support the arguments, et al. of a movement and you love its supports, does that make you fight for it harder? Even further, if you don't agree with the arguments, et al. of a movement, but you admire and respect its advocates, does that admiration and respect make you reconsider your position or support them in spite of your reservations?

    Example: You are against same sex marriage morally and you support it politically, but you've interacted primarily with militant gay rights activists who castigate anyone who differs with them even a bit. Do those people reduce your willingness to support gay rights?

    Thread inspired, in part, by this one: http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-co...-you-baby.html
    I think there are a lot of factors that go into support or lack of support for a movement. One might not support gay marriage morally or politically but might so abhor the behavior of groups like Westbor baptist they put their wctive opposition to hold out of disdain for and not wanting to be identified with crazies.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  5. #55
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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Who, besides you, defined militant as "not being meek while demanding equal rights" in this thread?
    You did. In the OP. You describe someone who is in your face about discrimination, and doesn't sit around, politely asking you not to oppress people, as militant. Somehow the expectation is that oppressed people will just wait for the wisdom of the majority to bless them equality. You get upset that they don't come to you like Oliver Twist, like a child asking an adult, "please sir, I want some more" with deference and humility because they dare to be lesser than you. It's applied to gay activists, to atheists, to people who know better than the complete and utter bull that racism goes away by ignoring it, and to women who want to be masters of their own destinies. When someone dares to stand up demand equality, rather than meekly begging for it, they're labeled as militant. It's nothing more than the 21st century version of "uppity."
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  6. #56
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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You did. In the OP. You describe someone who is in your face about discrimination, and doesn't sit around, politely asking you not to oppress people, as militant. Somehow the expectation is that oppressed people will just wait for the wisdom of the majority to bless them equality. You get upset that they don't come to you like Oliver Twist, like a child asking an adult, "please sir, I want some more" with deference and humility because they dare to be lesser than you. It's applied to gay activists, to atheists, to people who know better than the complete and utter bull that racism goes away by ignoring it, and to women who want to be masters of their own destinies. When someone dares to stand up demand equality, rather than meekly begging for it, they're labeled as militant. It's nothing more than the 21st century version of "uppity."
    So it's either meek or militant. We can now safely eliminate a whole bunch of pages from the dictionary. Do you have hot and cold running water only where you live? I don't know about you, but around here we can mix the two and actually achieve an infinite number of variations in between those two extremes. Believe it or not, gays, women, atheists, and all the races have access to it here.

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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I actually hadn't thought of PETA which is surprising because it's definitely an organization that hurts the animal rights movement. I'm so turned off by their behavior and by the extremism of many of their arguments as are many others.
    Don't even get me started. As an animal lover and something of an activist, PETA makes me want to put my head through a wall.

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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You did. In the OP. You describe someone who is in your face about discrimination, and doesn't sit around, politely asking you not to oppress people, as militant. Somehow the expectation is that oppressed people will just wait for the wisdom of the majority to bless them equality. You get upset that they don't come to you like Oliver Twist, like a child asking an adult, "please sir, I want some more" with deference and humility because they dare to be lesser than you. It's applied to gay activists, to atheists, to people who know better than the complete and utter bull that racism goes away by ignoring it, and to women who want to be masters of their own destinies. When someone dares to stand up demand equality, rather than meekly begging for it, they're labeled as militant. It's nothing more than the 21st century version of "uppity."
    Um, you just projected A LOT onto my post - like a WHOLE LOT. I referenced "militant gay rights activists" but I didn't define it so you provided a definition for me based on your own sensitivities. Instead of assuming that I meant all that you assumed I meant by that term, you should have asked me what I meant (hint: nothing even close to what you said). Moreover, considering my history of telling anti-SSM people on DP to shove it when they complain about gay people being "in their face" and having anti-SSM people lose their **** on me because I didn't have any patience for their "but why can't gay people just take civil unions" and "compromise", your comment is laughably inaccurate. I do literally the exact opposite of what you described.

    So please, take your presumptuous bull**** the **** out of my face and shove it up your ass and the next time you see someone use a term that makes you emotional, ask the person what they meant by it instead of projecting whatever nonsense you have in your mind about it.

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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You did. In the OP. You describe someone who is in your face about discrimination, and doesn't sit around, politely asking you not to oppress people, as militant. Somehow the expectation is that oppressed people will just wait for the wisdom of the majority to bless them equality. You get upset that they don't come to you like Oliver Twist, like a child asking an adult, "please sir, I want some more" with deference and humility because they dare to be lesser than you. It's applied to gay activists, to atheists, to people who know better than the complete and utter bull that racism goes away by ignoring it, and to women who want to be masters of their own destinies. When someone dares to stand up demand equality, rather than meekly begging for it, they're labeled as militant. It's nothing more than the 21st century version of "uppity."
    Epic. Why can't I Like this twice?

    I've been called "militant" on several issues simply for being very firm. For simply asserting unapologetically what I believe. I remember one time being called a militant atheist for condemned a bunch of Christians running an atheist out of town. Literally.

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    Re: Do a movement's supporters influence the legitimacy of that movement?

    Absolutely, I support many of the Tea party gripes as do many democrats I know, however, the extreme of either party can erase the total effectiveness of a good idea.

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