• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Confiscatory Cyprus Bank Tax Idea Destroyed European Bank Confidence ???

Is This Theft?

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
PeteEU said:
It is no different than what the US did at the start of this financial crash.. push the burden of repair onto the public... The only difference is that in Cyprus they went directly for the bank books, where as in the US and elsewhere they did it by loading on debt on debt and creating deficits in the public sector and then crying "oh we must cut because we are spending too much"...

In the end it is the average Joe that pays and the ones who caused the problem are laughing all the way to the bank while living a life of luxury in tax haven some where.
Click to expand...

The average "Joe" in Cyprus does not have over $100,000 euros in the bank. Most of that wealth is from Russian Govt. "mobsters" who use Cyprus as a tax haven for their stolen cash. In this case at least it is a "what goes around comes around" situation that could easily be called "protection money" so the Russians would understand the concept. If the money is already "stolen" how can it be theft? I chalk it up to Karma, you can't escape it.
 
iguanaman said:
The average "Joe" in Cyprus does not have over $100,000 euros in the bank. Most of that wealth is from Russian Govt. "mobsters" who use Cyprus as a tax haven for their stolen cash. In this case at least it is a "what goes around comes around" situation that could easily be called "protection money" so the Russians would understand the concept. If the money is already "stolen" how can it be theft? I chalk it up to Karma, you can't escape it.
Click to expand...

I need a clarification between "Russian Gov't Mobsters" and "USA Banksters," as they appear to be the same to me. I can clearly see that the FED and the Bank of England and the EuroBank colluded in 2008 to keep each other afloat. That might indicate that the Russian Bank is not a member of the team. Would that be a team or another word for some type of Mafia? Current actions in Cyprus indicate if you are not a part of the team, BEWARE! I think it is way past time to prosecute.
 
grip said:
The gov in collusion with the corporate elite have figured out every way to entice people to spend and lose their money that's possible. Now that they can't get the savers to spend it all they're simply stealing it because they can. And it will continue till the masses rise up and raid their luxury homes and accounts, throwing the bums out of office and position. I hate to say it might come to this but I hope not. Greed is a powerful and blinding emotion. The elite think they're indispensable and that we the people are throw away trash.
Click to expand...

For the love of god...listen

Laiki Bank is bankrupt. What happens in a US bank when it goes belly up? ... Well it has happened over 300 time since 2007,.. so what happens? Well at best a customer can get 1.5 million, but most will at most get up to 250k US dollars and that is only under certain conditions and ONLY in banks that the FDIC insures. Those are the FDIC rules. Also the FDIC deposit insurance plan is only viable if the FDIC has the money or the US federal government "bails out" the FDIC. The FDIC does not have the 4+ trillion dollars needed to guarantee all deposits in the US.. it does not even have 100 billion. So when Washington Mutual went belly up due to the sub-prime crisis, then the FDIC was screwed, because the deposits in Washington Mutual was far far more than what it had in reserves. That is why the Feds forced Bank of America to suck up Washington Mutual, because the FDIC could not pay the 100+ billion needed to guarantee the deposits in the bank. Fact is that the FDIC at the end of 2009 or 10, only had like 45 million dollars left and had to get more capital.... see the problem?

Now in Europe the limit in most countries is 100k Euros, and with the new banking union in the Eurozone, then it will be 100k Euros for all Eurozone countries. But until the banking union is in place, then it is each country that is guaranteeing the deposits, not the Eurozone. Hence when the top two Cyprus banks got into trouble and Laiki Bank went bankrupt, the first thing they Cyprus government did was to sieze the bank and nationalize it. Problem was that the debts in the bank were so much bigger than the over all Cyprus economy and that meant that the Cyprus government got in trouble... they could not afford to guarantee the deposits of the top two banks, let alone Laiki bank.

So the problem was that without help from the Eurozone to bail-out these two banks, then these banks would go bankrupt and all the deposits would poof, not only those over 100k.

Now I admit fully that the first attempt that was made, that even put a small charge on depositors under 100k was a boneheaded idiotic move that put the whole banking system at risk in every country in the industrialized world.. simply because most people have lived in a fantasy world thinking that all their deposits in the banks were guaranteed... but the fact of the matter is.. they are not. And this is this realization that is hitting most people.. holy ****, the banks are not 100% safe, especially if you have more than the guaranteed amount.

So the fact is, the depositors in Laiki Bank are actually getting a better deal compared to a normal bank bankruptcy... at least they are getting some of their money over 100k back.

Let me ask you this... Lehman Brothers went belly up.. did everyone get their money they had deposited there? Yes it was not a bank bank, but the principle is the same.
 
peteeu said:
for the love of god...listen

laiki bank is bankrupt. What happens in a us bank when it goes belly up? ... Well it has happened over 300 time since 2007,.. So what happens? Well at best a customer can get 1.5 million, but most will at most get up to 250k us dollars and that is only under certain conditions and only in banks that the fdic insures. Those are the fdic rules. Also the fdic deposit insurance plan is only viable if the fdic has the money or the us federal government "bails out" the fdic. The fdic does not have the 4+ trillion dollars needed to guarantee all deposits in the us.. It does not even have 100 billion. So when washington mutual went belly up due to the sub-prime crisis, then the fdic was screwed, because the deposits in washington mutual was far far more than what it had in reserves. That is why the feds forced bank of america to suck up washington mutual, because the fdic could not pay the 100+ billion needed to guarantee the deposits in the bank. Fact is that the fdic at the end of 2009 or 10, only had like 45 million dollars left and had to get more capital.... See the problem?

Now in europe the limit in most countries is 100k euros, and with the new banking union in the eurozone, then it will be 100k euros for all eurozone countries. But until the banking union is in place, then it is each country that is guaranteeing the deposits, not the eurozone. Hence when the top two cyprus banks got into trouble and laiki bank went bankrupt, the first thing they cyprus government did was to sieze the bank and nationalize it. Problem was that the debts in the bank were so much bigger than the over all cyprus economy and that meant that the cyprus government got in trouble... They could not afford to guarantee the deposits of the top two banks, let alone laiki bank.

So the problem was that without help from the eurozone to bail-out these two banks, then these banks would go bankrupt and all the deposits would poof, not only those over 100k.

Now i admit fully that the first attempt that was made, that even put a small charge on depositors under 100k was a boneheaded idiotic move that put the whole banking system at risk in every country in the industrialized world.. Simply because most people have lived in a fantasy world thinking that all their deposits in the banks were guaranteed... But the fact of the matter is.. They are not. And this is this realization that is hitting most people.. Holy ****, the banks are not 100% safe, especially if you have more than the guaranteed amount.

So the fact is, the depositors in laiki bank are actually getting a better deal compared to a normal bank bankruptcy... At least they are getting some of their money over 100k back.

Let me ask you this... Lehman brothers went belly up.. Did everyone get their money they had deposited there? Yes it was not a bank bank, but the principle is the same.
Click to expand...

wrong!
 
theft or not, it's incredibly stupid. from what i understand, the lifeblood of that nation is foreign rich people hiding money from taxes in Cypriot banks. they killed the golden goose for generations to come, for sure.

i'm not a huge fan of offshore tax havens, but if you are one and if your economy depends on it, don't do what Cyprus did.
 
Helix said:
theft or not, it's incredibly stupid. from what i understand, the lifeblood of that nation is foreign rich people hiding money from taxes in Cypriot banks. they killed the golden goose for generations to come, for sure.

i'm not a huge fan of offshore tax havens, but if you are one and if your economy depends on it, don't do what Cyprus did.
Click to expand...

They did not have much choice. The "tax haven" money laundering image would have gone poof regardless of what they did, and these foreign nationals would have been hit regardless. There was simply no money to guarantee any deposits in these two failing banks. And even if they had, as some claim they should have.. left the Euro, it would not have saved the foreign nationals deposits because they would have wanted their money in Euros and not some new worthless Cyprus Pound.

We have to face it, there was no win win situation here for anyone and the result now was most likely one of the better outcomes for everyone involved.
 
PeteEU said:
For the love of god...listen

Laiki Bank is bankrupt. What happens in a US bank when it goes belly up? ... Well it has happened over 300 time since 2007,.. so what happens? Well at best a customer can get 1.5 million, but most will at most get up to 250k US dollars and that is only under certain conditions and ONLY in banks that the FDIC insures. Those are the FDIC rules. Also the FDIC deposit insurance plan is only viable if the FDIC has the money or the US federal government "bails out" the FDIC. The FDIC does not have the 4+ trillion dollars needed to guarantee all deposits in the US.. it does not even have 100 billion. So when Washington Mutual went belly up due to the sub-prime crisis, then the FDIC was screwed, because the deposits in Washington Mutual was far far more than what it had in reserves. That is why the Feds forced Bank of America to suck up Washington Mutual, because the FDIC could not pay the 100+ billion needed to guarantee the deposits in the bank. Fact is that the FDIC at the end of 2009 or 10, only had like 45 million dollars left and had to get more capital.... see the problem?

Now in Europe the limit in most countries is 100k Euros, and with the new banking union in the Eurozone, then it will be 100k Euros for all Eurozone countries. But until the banking union is in place, then it is each country that is guaranteeing the deposits, not the Eurozone. Hence when the top two Cyprus banks got into trouble and Laiki Bank went bankrupt, the first thing they Cyprus government did was to sieze the bank and nationalize it. Problem was that the debts in the bank were so much bigger than the over all Cyprus economy and that meant that the Cyprus government got in trouble... they could not afford to guarantee the deposits of the top two banks, let alone Laiki bank.

So the problem was that without help from the Eurozone to bail-out these two banks, then these banks would go bankrupt and all the deposits would poof, not only those over 100k.

Now I admit fully that the first attempt that was made, that even put a small charge on depositors under 100k was a boneheaded idiotic move that put the whole banking system at risk in every country in the industrialized world.. simply because most people have lived in a fantasy world thinking that all their deposits in the banks were guaranteed... but the fact of the matter is.. they are not. And this is this realization that is hitting most people.. holy ****, the banks are not 100% safe, especially if you have more than the guaranteed amount.

So the fact is, the depositors in Laiki Bank are actually getting a better deal compared to a normal bank bankruptcy... at least they are getting some of their money over 100k back.

Let me ask you this... Lehman Brothers went belly up.. did everyone get their money they had deposited there? Yes it was not a bank bank, but the principle is the same.
Click to expand...


USA FED money bailed out USA Banks. USA taxpayer money bailed out USA banks and some EURO banks. The Media doesn't say "bankrupt" Laiki Bank, but does say it will wind down Laiki Bank. Now, it is my opinion that it is a legal connundrum to use the words "wind down," instead of bankrupt. Note that big losers will recieve bank stock or bonds to defray a lower percentage of losses. Dead fish involved someplace.
 
PeteEU said:
Very mature...

FDIC: Your Insured Deposits



So how exactly am I wrong on that issue?

And if that was not the issue... what part was I wrong about?
Click to expand...

Everything. They can take our money anytime they please, unless it's in a home safe. Cypress is just the beginning. But I doubt they'll try that in the US anytime real soon. They'll get us another way. It's naive to believe any of the current rules apply to the elite who make the rules.
 
DaveFagan said:
USA FED money bailed out USA Banks.
Click to expand...

Nope. Over 300 US banks have failed so far since 2007. Did the US bail out the big banks? Yes, because there was no choice since they could not let them go bankrupt since the FDIC could not guarantee the depositors.

USA taxpayer money bailed out USA banks and some EURO banks.
Click to expand...

Bold and underlined is debatable. Was there US based European banks that got "bail-out" money.. yes, but that was their US division, not their European divisions.

The Media doesn't say "bankrupt" Laiki Bank, but does say it will wind down Laiki Bank.
Click to expand...

When a bank is seized by the state for recapitalization that is as good as bankrupt. Governments dont like letting big banks go bankrupt but the fact is, that without the recapitalization in 2012, then the bank would have gone bankrupt. Laiki bank is 85% owned by the state at the moment. It is no different than RBS in the UK or Northern Rock in the UK.

Now, it is my opinion that it is a legal connundrum to use the words "wind down," instead of bankrupt.
Click to expand...

It is not a legal conundrum.. it is a political ploy. The last thing the politicians want is to see the headlines "2nd biggest bank in Cyprus bankrupt". The word bankrupt is very powerful to the general population, and when it is linked with a financial institution of this size... it would be catastrophic. Just look at what happened with Lehman Brothers bankruptcy and the panic around that.

You have to remember this is equivalent to Bank of America going bankrupt. What would you rather hear... Bank of America is being wound down or Bank of America is bankrupt.. which would cause less panic?

Note that big losers will recieve bank stock or bonds to defray a lower percentage of losses. Dead fish involved someplace.
Click to expand...

Yes they will, which is far far far far more than they would have gotten under normal bankruptcy.
 
grip said:
Everything. They can take our money anytime they please, unless it's in a home safe. Cypress is just the beginning. But I doubt they'll try that in the US anytime real soon. They'll get us another way. It's naive to believe any of the current rules apply to the elite who make the rules.
Click to expand...

Ahh so you are not debating on facts... just ranting in a fantasy world.. gotcha!

and btw... money is only as valuable as the value the public and markets put into it... so even if you have the money in the safe at home... if the money is worthless.. then you are still screwed :)
 
PeteEU said:
Ahh so you are not debating on facts... just ranting in a fantasy world.. gotcha!

and btw... money is only as valuable as the value the public and markets put into it... so even if you have the money in the safe at home... if the money is worthless.. then you are still screwed :)
Click to expand...

Cypress was fantasy? 2008 economic collapse was a fantasy? Watch out because I think we're about to see some more fantasy pretty soon.

If money is worthless we're all screwed, trust me....lol
 
PeteEU said:
Nope. Over 300 US banks have failed so far since 2007. Did the US bail out the big banks? Yes, because there was no choice since they could not let them go bankrupt since the FDIC could not guarantee the depositors.



Bold and underlined is debatable. Was there US based European banks that got "bail-out" money.. yes, but that was their US division, not their European divisions.



When a bank is seized by the state for recapitalization that is as good as bankrupt. Governments dont like letting big banks go bankrupt but the fact is, that without the recapitalization in 2012, then the bank would have gone bankrupt. Laiki bank is 85% owned by the state at the moment. It is no different than RBS in the UK or Northern Rock in the UK.



It is not a legal conundrum.. it is a political ploy. The last thing the politicians want is to see the headlines "2nd biggest bank in Cyprus bankrupt". The word bankrupt is very powerful to the general population, and when it is linked with a financial institution of this size... it would be catastrophic. Just look at what happened with Lehman Brothers bankruptcy and the panic around that.

You have to remember this is equivalent to Bank of America going bankrupt. What would you rather hear... Bank of America is being wound down or Bank of America is bankrupt.. which would cause less panic?



Yes they will, which is far far far far more than they would have gotten under normal bankruptcy.
Click to expand...

It Can Happen Here: The Confiscation Scheme Planned For U.S. And U.K. Depositors - Seeking Alpha

" A joint paper by the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Bank of England dated Dec. 10, 2012, shows that these plans have been long in the making; that they originated with the G20 Financial Stability Board in Basel, Switzerland (discussed earlier here); and that the result will be to deliver clear title to the banks of depositor funds.

New Zealand has a similar directive, discussed in my last article here, indicating that this isn't just an emergency measure for troubled eurozone countries. New Zealand's Voxy reported on March 19:

The National Government [is] pushing a Cyprus-style solution to bank failure in New Zealand, which will see small depositors lose some of their savings to fund big bank bailouts...

Open Bank Resolution (OBR) is Finance Minister Bill English's favored option dealing with a major bank failure. If a bank fails under OBR, all depositors will have their savings reduced overnight to fund the bank's bailout."

Just to let you know that the Central Banks/Reserve Bank's management is paid tens of millions of dollars to manage money poorly and when their incompetence becomes manifest, lowly depositors, you and I, will be penalized monetarily. The bankers get to keep the big salaries that their incompetence has earned for them. Feel sumpin' slippin'?
 
Here's another commentary on the Cyprus bank fiasco/theft. Pay attention. Maybe we are next.

Kitco Commentary

"The UK Independence Party leader said that the European Union had “crossed a line” by trying to extract funds from savers under the terms of the abandoned Cypriot bailout. Mr. Farage said: “Even I didn’t think that they would stoop to actually stealing money from people’s bank accounts.

“There is going to be a big flight of money and that flight of money won’t just be from Cyprus, it will be from the other Euro-zone countries, too. There are 750,000 British people who own properties, or who live (many of them in retirement) down in Spain. “Now that we see the EU are (is) prepared to resort to anything to keep alive their failing Euro project, our advice to expats living down in the Mediterranean must be, 'Get your money out of there while you’ve still got a chance’.”

The second major mistake made by the ECB-IMF-Federal Reserve was demanding a drop-dead date of March 25, 2013, in effect giving the Cyprus government four days to comply or be declared insolvent pushing them out of the Euro Currency and Euro-land.

It is our considered opinion that they, in a demonic flash of brilliance, have not only shot themselves in their collective feet but have doomed any positive resurrection of any economy on the continent. Now, we expect the financial powers in “The City” to read the handwriting on their Euro-land wall of pain, and move out over $650 billion a day in trading derivatives and other species of trading to Germany."
 
For PeteEU. This should explain the difference between bankruptcy and robbery, eh?

The Great Cyprus Bank Robbery

"In other words, it’s the Great Cyprus Bank Robbery.

No doubt Cyprus has made many mistakes in its bank regulations and policies. But anyone who thinks that a country of 840,000 is making up its own policies is crazy. Cyprus has implemented the policies that the US and EU have recommended for it.

Now that Cyprus’s banks are in trouble, the EU is demanding that Cyprus bail out its banks — and make the depositors pay for the bailout. It’s no mystery why. Most of the bondholders who lent to Cyprus’s banks are banks in other European countries.

Cyprus should let its banks fail, then see where the chips fall. Depositors should be protected as much as possible. Ultimately, if there are deposit insurance bills to pay, the government should pay for them. If that means higher taxes, so be it.

But to make bank depositors pay for a bank bailout is sheer robbery."
 
I'm no rocket scientist, but why don't the ECB and the Cyprus Bank just state that they are going to steal 60% of large depositors money. If they can do it there, it can be done here, remember that. They must not be afraid of the Russian mafia, eh?

Bank of Cyprus big savers to lose up to 60 percent | Breaking Tampa Bay, Florida and national news and weather from Tampa Bay Online and The Tampa Tribune | TBO.com

"[h=1]"Bank of Cyprus big savers to lose up to 60 percent[/h] Published: March 30, 2013
NICOSIA, Cyprus - NICOSIA, Cyprus (AP) — A Central Bank official and a senior Finance Ministry technocrat says that Bank of Cyprus savers with over 100,000 euros could take losses of up to 60 percent.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they're not authorized to publicly discuss details of the issue, said Saturday that deposits over 100,000 at the country's largest lender will lose 37.5 percent of their value after being converted into bank shares.

They said they could lose up to 22.5 percent more, depending on an assessment by officials who will determine the exact figure aimed at restoring the troubled bank back to health.

Cyprus agreed Monday to make depositors contribute to a financial rescue in order to secure 10 billion euros ($12.9 billion) in loans from the eurozone and the IMF."
 
DaveFagan said:
I'm no rocket scientist, but why don't the ECB and the Cyprus Bank just state that they are going to steal 60% of large depositors money. If they can do it there, it can be done here, remember that. They must not be afraid of the Russian mafia, eh?

Bank of Cyprus big savers to lose up to 60 percent | Breaking Tampa Bay, Florida and national news and weather from Tampa Bay Online and The Tampa Tribune | TBO.com

""Bank of Cyprus big savers to lose up to 60 percent

Published: March 30, 2013
NICOSIA, Cyprus - NICOSIA, Cyprus (AP) — A Central Bank official and a senior Finance Ministry technocrat says that Bank of Cyprus savers with over 100,000 euros could take losses of up to 60 percent.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they're not authorized to publicly discuss details of the issue, said Saturday that deposits over 100,000 at the country's largest lender will lose 37.5 percent of their value after being converted into bank shares.

They said they could lose up to 22.5 percent more, depending on an assessment by officials who will determine the exact figure aimed at restoring the troubled bank back to health.

Cyprus agreed Monday to make depositors contribute to a financial rescue in order to secure 10 billion euros ($12.9 billion) in loans from the eurozone and the IMF."
Click to expand...

I have to ask myself. Who's side is the IMF and the Eurozone/ECB on? Certainly not on the side of small money. They seem to be international. They are Reserve Bank leaders. I am certain that they represent the "too big to fail" interests and would like to know what is really going on. If all these banks are so extremely fragile, there is something endemic wrong with the system. Iceland did the right thing. If the banks need to crash, let it happen and we'll all be knee deep in the same swamp. That 1/10th of the top 1% can just kiss my ass.
 
DaveFagan said:
I have to ask myself. Who's side is the IMF and the Eurozone/ECB on? Certainly not on the side of small money. They seem to be international. They are Reserve Bank leaders. I am certain that they represent the "too big to fail" interests and would like to know what is really going on. If all these banks are so extremely fragile, there is something endemic wrong with the system. Iceland did the right thing. If the banks need to crash, let it happen and we'll all be knee deep in the same swamp. That 1/10th of the top 1% can just kiss my ass.
Click to expand...

How much do the banks have to do before you realize that this is a scam... Plain and simple... And the riots are part of the plan, that is, the riots that occur as a result of the wealth being stolen??

Seriously, it's at the point now where it'd be like a robber walking out of your house, and says that he thought he was supposed you help move, but it was the wrong address and was just an accident that the house was broken into in the process.

At what point do people start to realize that incompetence is just the cover story for criminality!?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom