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Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?


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The U.S. Navy SEAL team took care of Bin Laden long ago

Thanks to President Barack Obama who refocused our efforts back on the people who actually attacked us after almost a decade of the previous clown who took his eyes of the prize.
 
Reality demonstrates that for many, "democracy" is synonymous with having what the west has - ie rampant consumerism.

Does the larger environmental footprint of the average American/Canadian/Australian/brit demonstrate that democracy is good for ecology?

does the reliance of people in democratic countries on the destruction of rainforests and other habitats around the world to meet their consumer demands provide evidence?

how about the destruction of environments within the world's largest "democracy" - India?

Is rampant consum,erism goof

You equate democracy and "rampant consumerism"? Please, let's not pretend that only democracies buy stuff. Dictatorships buy stuff, it's just mostly cronies and military. Your entire post is an indictment of the western world and not democracy. Conflating the two is nothing more than common haterism.

There is no way around the obvious: those without a voice in the authority of their common resources get screwed by the state.

Look at China... Oh, wait, that's the US's fault isn't it. hah


are you seriously suggesting that Iraq is safer for the average Iraqi now than what it was under Saddam?

Safer for Kurds, Marsh Arabs and women? Definately. The state no longer slaughters and rapes them wholesale, and such is not legal. If you want to pretend that things are more dangerous today, think for a minute about Saddam's reporting of incidents involving his rape squads.
 
No, it isn't. Do you know what a strawman is? With no evidence they were working together, you claim they were. You simply can't. And with as much effort put not trying to find such evidence only to fail, you have to conclude they likely weren't.
In what post did I claim that? Oh, gee that's right, I didn't. So you flat out lied. Not only that, you were challenging an argument that I never made in the first place, therefore it's a strawman.

You made an assertion and when challenged to back it up you lied and tried to shift the burden of proof via a strawman argument.

You are stacking logical fallacies.
 
justifying the invasion of a country under false pretenses and then claiming that there will be suffering afterwards IS callousness

Look lady, I'm just acknowledging that OIL isn't the main reason why we attacked Iraq. To actually believe that is stupid and naive. It's obvious that YOU think we live in a Kumbaya kind of world. That is just ignorant as hell. Keep burying your head in the sand and crying over dead murderous tyrannical dictators. Seems that's what you're good at.
 
Yes, it was, which was one of the problems. Fighting a "war on terror" is fighting a strategy of warfare. We didn't really know who our enemy was, at least not specifically. Fighting a war on Al Qaeda would have given us more focus.

Better yet, we could have gone after Bin Laden and his cohorts and gone home.

I don't deny that narrowing the targets would be a better idea and that it would be virtually impossible to wipe terrorism off the face of the earth. However, like you yourself acknowledged, we really don't know who the enemy is that we are fighting. This is not your typical war.
 
Notice the comment "impossible to accomplish."

I think the point was to disorganize them and keep them on their toes so that they don't have the means to get together and plan large-scale attacks. Not to wipe them out completely.
 
I don't deny that narrowing the targets would be a better idea and that it would be virtually impossible to wipe terrorism off the face of the earth. However, like you yourself acknowledged, we really don't know who the enemy is that we are fighting. This is not your typical war.

No, it's not a typical war. In fact, I'm not sure it's really a war at all, except perhaps in the same sense that the war on drugs and the war on poverty are "wars."

A war is when you're attacked by an enemy, or attack an enemy, and fight it out with no holds barred until one side or the other is destroyed. After it's over, the victors write the history of the war, making the losers evil and the victors good in a classic good vs. evil struggle. That's a war.

Trying to wipe out terrorists, or jihadis, or Islamic nutters, or nutters of any sort, or drugs, or poverty, or idiocy is not a war.

That's not to say that wiping out terrorists, or jihadis, or Islamic nutters, or nutters of any sort, or drugs, or poverty, or idiocy wouldn't be a good thing were it possible to do so.
 
Look lady, I'm just acknowledging that OIL isn't the main reason why we attacked Iraq. To actually believe that is stupid and naive.

Some memes just will not die.

Luft said he didn’t see Chinese development of Iraq’s oil as a case of China enjoying the spoils of a war for which the U.S. had paid dearly both in lives and taxpayer dollars.

It’s a myth that U.S. energy security relies on Middle Eastern imports, he said. Oil from the region makes up just a small percentage of what America uses. The U.S. will benefit if China or anyone else can get Iraqi’s huge reserves developed and onto the market, he said. Since oil is a global commodity, he said, more oil on the market brings down prices.

“Energy security is about not only the availability of the resource but also about the cost,” Luft said. “Anything that brings down global oil prices is positive for U.S. energy security.”

Read more here: WASHINGTON: Iraqi oil: Once seen as U.S. boon, now it’s mostly China’s - World Wires - MiamiHerald.com
 
I think the point was to disorganize them and keep them on their toes so that they don't have the means to get together and plan large-scale attacks. Not to wipe them out completely.

Only the "them" wasn't really based in Iraq. All we did was make it easier for "them" to reach Americans. There was 8 years between the two Tower attacks. This implies they could not easily attacked us, and considering the time between 9/11 and we invaded, with no attacks in the states, it was a bit confusing as to why some thought they could do it at will. But by going into Iraq, a minor player at most, who largely fought those most a threat to us, allowing a target, a target more easily reached, did not hurt "them."

Iraqi people? Yes. US troops? Yes. But the "them." They got training on the job, killed Americans, and inflicted a financial cost. That was more than they could have ever done had we not invaded.
 
No one is justifying the war, just saying that there ARE other reasons why we went there. It was NOT all about the oil. We had just been attacked by terrorists, and Iraq was a known terrorist haven with lots of training camps.


There were no more terrorists there than in other countries around the world, so that's not it! As a matter of fact the Pentagon said their was no al Qaeda/Saddam link. They did not get along.
 
Could you explain the reasoning you used to come to that ridiculous conclusion?

Simple. "Them," those who attacked us, those who we needed to tackle, were not based in Iraq. Invading Iraq would like choosing to beat up A Girl Scout because Tyson hit you.
 
Simple. "Them," those who attacked us, those who we needed to tackle, were not based in Iraq. Invading Iraq would like choosing to beat up A Girl Scout because Tyson hit you.



But at least US and British oil once again have access to Girl Scout Cookies for the first time since 1973! :cool:
 
Thanks to President Barack Obama who refocused our efforts back on the people who actually attacked us after almost a decade of the previous clown who took his eyes of the prize.

Obama did not do anything except take the credit.......He is nothing but a glory hound.
 
What are you talking about, I gave you a video of Hillary supporting the WMD argument and also making connections between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

No excuses. I'd fire them all. However, misrepresenting is proper either. Report exactly what they said, and not the misleading version.
 
What are you talking about, I gave you a video of Hillary supporting the WMD argument and also making connections between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

You didn't stop there. I spoke of Kerry. Haven't looked at Hillary enough to if you have the context correct, and I am not sure why you think she speaks for everyone. Are you willing to accept everything Hillary says as the gospel?
 
What do you mean "didn't stop there"? And why are you blaming me for Hillary's context, I didn't quote her, I gave you a video of her speaking.

Many people in powerful and influential positions supported the Iraq War, including these three, who I added because they're probably the three most influential Democrats right now, proving that it wasn't just "Bush's war".

You didn't stop there. I spoke of Kerry. Haven't looked at Hillary enough to if you have the context correct, and I am not sure why you think she speaks for everyone. Are you willing to accept everything Hillary says as the gospel?
 
What do you mean "didn't stop there"? And why are you blaming me for Hillary's context, I didn't quote her, I gave you a video of her speaking.

Many people in powerful and influential positions supported the Iraq War, including these three, who I added because they're probably the three most influential Democrats right now, proving that it wasn't just "Bush's war".

Good afternoon, JC.

They just HATE being reminded of that! :thumbs: They were kinda hoping the public would forget by now....
 
Yeah, it sure seems that way:)

Whenever anyone acts like the war was a total mistake and a total waste, I always feel so bad for our troops who fought so bravely for us.

Good afternoon, JC.

They just HATE being reminded of that! :thumbs: They were kinda hoping the public would forget by now....
 
Obama did not do anything except take the credit.......He is nothing but a glory hound.

LOL....if GWB had actually gotten the job done, you would be the first one here proclaiming what an amazing and incredible world leader he is....but since Obama doesn't have an (R) behind his name you can't stand giving him the credit that is due to him. Face it NP....your hero had 8 years to get the job done, but he wasn't focused and spent too much time being a "war" President than actually accomplishing something. Obama did in 3 years what your clown couldn't get done in almost a decade.
 
LOL....if GWB had actually gotten the job done, you would be the first one here proclaiming what an amazing and incredible world leader he is....but since Obama doesn't have an (R) behind his name you can't stand giving him the credit that is due to him. Face it NP....your hero had 8 years to get the job done, but he wasn't focused and spent too much time being a "war" President than actually accomplishing something. Obama did in 3 years what your clown couldn't get done in almost a decade.

The effort to find, fix and finish bin Laden was the work of a decade and spanned both administrations. Both Presidents can justifiably claim credit, but most belongs to the patient, dedicated professionals.:cool:
 
Obama did not do anything except take the credit.......He is nothing but a glory hound.

BTW....Was it Obama that took a victory lap and stood on the deck of an aircraft carrier with a sock stuffed down his pants claiming "Mission Accomplished" prematurely?...aaaaaaa...hmmmmm....wait....I think that was another President. My bad.
 
The effort to find, fix and finish bin Laden was the work of a decade and spanned both administrations. Both Presidents can justifiably claim credit, but most belongs to the patient, dedicated professionals.:cool:


Bush On Bin Laden: ‘I Really Just Don’t Spend That Much Time On Him’
FLASHBACK: Bush On Bin Laden: 'I Really Just Don't Spend That Much Time On Him' | ThinkProgress

"Iraq war my biggest regret, Bush admits."
Interview: Iraq war my biggest regret, Bush admits | World news | The Guardian
 
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