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Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  • Total voters
    102
marywollstonecraft said:
The problem is that often it is the US that doesn't grasp the entire picture. they see it through a prism of "what will benefit the corporations that grease the US govts palm."
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Do you have any evidence of your accusation?
 
marywollstonecraft said:
well I would say that you access some pretty limited sources.

BBC World Service - The Documentary, After Saddam - Hugh Sykes Returns To Iraq, Episode 1

I would also say that you have hardly ever spoken to an Iraqi.

religious minorities such as Sabeans and Christians were better off under Saddam. The Sabeans and Chtistians I have met have fled SINCE 2003. And they will never go back:

Persecution of Religious Minorities in Iraq by Shatha Almutawa

the UN estimates that about 7% of the population fled:

Refugees of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

these people are not insurgents.

The people who live in fear now are not insurgents.

Its not a matter of whether I am bitter.

As someone who has over many years worked with people from Iraq, I am offended by the inhumanity expressed by those who dismiss the ongoing tragedy and refuse to accept that the invasion was the catalyst for hundreds of thousands of deaths and the suffering of millions of people, no matter what evidence is presented.
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Nobody made any such claims. The question was is the world better off without Saddam Hussein.
 
Catawba said:
Do you mean in addition to the hundreds of thousands killed necessary to install the new regime? And we aided Saddam for 8 years when he was the most brutal. Why wait until he was an old man with a shotgun?

Torture in Iraq 'worse than under Saddam'

"Torture in Iraq is worse now than it was under the regime of Saddam Hussein and "is totally out of hand", according to a United Nations investigator.
"The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," said Manfred Nowak, a UN special investigator on torture, at a press conference in Geneva.

He said government forces, private militia and terrorist groups were all involved.

"You have terrorist groups, you have the military, you have police, you have these militias. There are so many people who are actually abducted, seriously tortured and finally killed," said Mr Nowak, an Austrian law professor."

Torture in Iraq 'worse than under Saddam' | World news | guardian.co.uk
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It's only natural that things get worse before they get better in such a situation. I'm sorry that you can't accept what has happened, but it happened and now crying over it online isn't going to change a thing. The thing we need to do is look to the future and not at the past.
 
shrubnose said:
I guess that we can count Germany, Italy, Japan, and Korea as success stories (Of course they started out with an educated population). And there are some others.

But there are some countries that we should have left alone.
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I agree that we should leave other countries alone for the most part; that includes monetary aid that we give them on a yearly basis.

I never said I agreed with the wars.
 
ChrisL said:
Do you have any evidence of your accusation?
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this has been discussed by numerous analysts, although possibly people who believe their country can do no wrong would choose not to read this.

here are some examples

US invasion of Iraq:eek:il, the mother of all factors

American intervention in the Middle East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U.S. Military Intervention in Africa: The New Blueprint for Global Domination | Global Research

The Worldwide Network of US Military Bases | Global Research
 
ChrisL said:
It's only natural that things get worse before they get better in such a situation. I'm sorry that you can't accept what has happened, but it happened and now crying over it online isn't going to change a thing. The thing we need to do is look to the future and not at the past.
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You couldn't be more wrong. We need to look att he past so we do not repeat those mistakes. It's obvious that you live in a Mass Media bubble and have absolutely no knowledge of recent history. Do not read the "history written by the victors," seek the truth. Diverse sources and perspectives. Find the meaning of the word paradigm.
 
ChrisL said:
I agree that we should leave other countries alone for the most part; that includes monetary aid that we give them on a yearly basis.

I never said I agreed with the wars.
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on a per capita basis, the US is not that generous, and much of the aid is tied - which has limited real benefit to the populace as a whole.
 
marywollstonecraft said:
this has been discussed by numerous analysts, although possibly people who believe their country can do no wrong would choose not to read this.

here are some examples

US invasion of Iraq:eek:il, the mother of all factors

American intervention in the Middle East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U.S. Military Intervention in Africa: The New Blueprint for Global Domination | Global Research

The Worldwide Network of US Military Bases | Global Research
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Do you actually believe that the only reason we went to war with Iraq was because of their oil?

I've already acknowledged that we (as would any country) would consider what is going to benefit us as well as the rest of the region, perhaps even the world. We were certainly concerned about the oil. We have to be. We also had to secure the oil fields from insurgents. However, we don't have "free" oil. The oil does NOT belong to us.
 
marywollstonecraft said:
on a per capita basis, the US is not that generous, and much of the aid is tied - which has limited real benefit to the populace as a whole.
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You must be joking. The US gives BILLIONS in foreign aid every year.
 
DaveFagan said:
You couldn't be more wrong. We need to look att he past so we do not repeat those mistakes. It's obvious that you live in a Mass Media bubble and have absolutely no knowledge of recent history. Do not read the "history written by the victors," seek the truth. Diverse sources and perspectives. Find the meaning of the word paradigm.
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You completely missed my point.
 
ChrisL said:
It's only natural that things get worse before they get better in such a situation. I'm sorry that you can't accept what has happened, but it happened and now crying over it online isn't going to change a thing. The thing we need to do is look to the future and not at the past.
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I am sure you would just pick yourself up and dust yourself off if your country was blown to smithereens, hundreds of thousands of your countrymen were killed and maimed, millions more fled, and the place continued to be more dangerous for you and your family indefinitely into the future.
 
ChrisL said:
You must be joking. The US gives BILLIONS in foreign aid every year.
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yep. do you know what "tied aid" means? effectively, tied aid benefits the donor countries mote than the receiving country. iraq is a good example. in 2003/4, there were thousands of unemployed Iraqi truck drivers, the generous aid programmes gave americans jobs in Iraq as truckdrivers at far more than the cost of employing local people. how did this benefit the Iraqis? it fed the growth of the insurgency.
 
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marywollstonecraft said:
I am sure you would just pick yourself up and dust yourself off if your country was blown to smithereens, hundreds of thousands of your countrymen were killed and maimed, millions more fled, and the place continued to be more dangerous for you and your family indefinitely into the future.
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I certainly would try to make the best of my situation. Yes. It doesn't do anyone any good to sit around and complain now does it?
 
ChrisL said:
I certainly would try to make the best of my situation. Yes. It doesn't do anyone any good to sit around and complain now does it?
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lols - so you would be ok with all that?

looking at the way americans reacted to 911, I doubt it!
 
marywollstonecraft said:
lols - so you would be ok with all that?

looking at the way americans reacted to 911, I doubt it!
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Nobody said I would be okay with that. I said I would try to make the best of my situation and not sit around and bitch about it. That accomplishes absolutely nothing. The important thing is focusing on the Iraq's future.
 
ChrisL said:
Money is NOT for nothing you know. Of course we would hope to benefit from any aid we give. :roll:
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well I am glad to see that you acknowledge that the US's purpose for giving aid is really whats in it for the USA..
 
marywollstonecraft said:
well I am glad to see that you acknowledge that the US's purpose for giving aid is really whats in it for the USA..
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Of course. It would be stupid NOT to consider that.

You know, we're not the sugar daddy of the world. These countries do NOT have to accept the aid. They do though.
 
ChrisL said:
Nobody said I would be okay with that. I said I would try to make the best of my situation and not sit around and bitch about it. That accomplishes absolutely nothing. The important thing is focusing on the Iraq's future.
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I would be interested to see how resilient americans really would be if the same thing happened to them.
 
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