View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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  • Yes

    87 70.16%
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    37 29.84%
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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #951
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Your problem is that you don't understand Ms. Pelosi's statement. in reality, she was saying that the admendments from the Republicans were coming so fast that it was impossible to know what was in the HC bill until it passed in the House.

    Did you know that the NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) was published just a few days before the vote on the Iraq resolution? There was no time to read the ****ing thing.
    Oh come now. (Talking about Iraq) Don't tell me these politicians weren't aware of exactly what would happen when they voted on the resolution. Unless they are COMPLETELY out of touch with their own jobs and the way things work, then they knew. And what of those who vote "present." LOL!

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Don't give me that tired old phrase, "You just hate Bush" crap, I supported Bush's decision to go into Afghanistan.
    Why did you support the decision to go into Afghanistan?

  3. #953
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sigh. I'm not going down the Joe Wilson rathole again. Wilson neither learned nor published anything that contradicted a single word of GWB's SOTU "sixteen words." Moreover, as a high profile overt investigator asking direct questions, Wilson was not in a position to provide evidence one way or another about any alleged covert procurement attempt. His entire performance in this affair was that of a self-promoting wannabe, his nose pressed against the glass, desperately seeking high office in a future Dem administration. Sadly for him, he already had a reputation as one of the oiliest, least trustworthy men in Washington, dating from his earlier service on the National Security Council staff.
    Thanks for you incorrect opinion Jack. FYI, Joe Wilson never said he contradicted GWB's SOTU "sixteen words."


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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Thanks for you incorrect opinion Jack. FYI, Joe Wilson never said he contradicted GWB's SOTU "sixteen words."
    Nothing in my post was opinion.

    I had no idea Wilson was so popular on the left because he supported GWB.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post

    The main reason Bush decided to invade Iraq was over WMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post

    False.
    No, not false.

    The main reason Bush decided to invade Iraq was over WMD.

    Bush admitted so himself...

    "Now, look, I -- part of the reason we went into Iraq -- was -- the main reason we went into Iraq -- at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction. ~ George Bush, 8.21.2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post

    The decision to invade preceded the WMD intelligence; it did not follow it. WMD was merely the lowest common denominator to build a coalition.
    Bullxit.

    "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." ~ head of MI6

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post

    You said that's a lie Bush told; if Bush lied, so did others.
    Let's replay this for the benefit of those who may have missed it ...

    ChrisL: "Saddam wasn't letting UN inspectors in. He acted like a man with something to hide."

    Sheik Yerbuti: "Say what?? That's a lie that George Bush told -- that doesn't make it true ..."

    Do you see that? The lie which Bush told and you repeated was that Hussein wouldn't let the U.N. inspectors back into Iraq. I proved that was not true by responding with a quote by Hans Blix as he described the unfettered access U.N. inspectors enjoyed since returning to Iraq.

    That was a lie Bush told. That is not a lie any Democrat made.

    Not one.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    No, not false.

    The main reason Bush decided to invade Iraq was over WMD.

    Bush admitted so himself...

    "Now, look, I -- part of the reason we went into Iraq -- was -- the main reason we went into Iraq -- at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction. ~ George Bush, 8.21.2006



    Bullxit.

    "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." ~ head of MI6
    Your Brit quote makes my point. Thank you.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Let's replay this for the benefit of those who may have missed it ...

    ChrisL: "Saddam wasn't letting UN inspectors in. He acted like a man with something to hide."

    Sheik Yerbuti: "Say what?? That's a lie that George Bush told -- that doesn't make it true ..."

    Do you see that? The lie which Bush told and you repeated was that Hussein wouldn't let the U.N. inspectors back into Iraq. I proved that was not true by responding with a quote by Hans Blix as he described the unfettered access U.N. inspectors enjoyed since returning to Iraq.

    That was a lie Bush told. That is not a lie any Democrat made.

    Not one.
    I understand that. What I am saying is that he didn't lie. He was given false information too. A LOT of people believed he had WMD (and that INCLUDES dem politicians) because that is what he led everyone to believe. It was SADDAM'S own lies. The CIA was led to believe this information.

    The CIA's Mea Culpa on Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction | TIME.com

    Snip: Bottom line, from the CIA’s point of view: Saddam used to lie about possessing WMD, so we believed he still was.

    — When the [U.N. and International Atomic Energy Agency] inspections proved more intrusive than expected, the Iraqi leadership appears to have panicked and made a fateful decision to secretly destroy much of the remaining nondeclared items and eliminate the evidence.

    — Clumsy but genuine Iraqi moves toward transparency — significant alterations in their “cheat and retreat” pattern — not only went undetected but instead seemed to confirm that Iraq could and would conceal evidence of proscribed programs.

    — We now judge that the Iraqis feared that [Saddam’s son-in-law and Iraqi weapons expert Hussein Kamel Hassan al-Majid] — a critical figure in Iraq’s WMD and [denial and deception] activities — would reveal additional undisclosed information. Iraq decided that further widespread deception and attempts to hold onto extensive WMD programs while under U.N. sanctions was untenable and changed strategic direction by adopting a policy of disclosure and improved cooperation.

    — Iraq’s firmly established “cheat and retreat” pattern made it difficult for U.N. inspectors and Western analysts to accept new Iraqi assertions at face value.

    — A liability of intelligence analysis is that once a party has been proven to be an effective deceiver, that knowledge becomes a heavy factor in the calculation of the analytical observer.

  9. #959
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I understand that. What I am saying is that he didn't lie. He was given false information too. A LOT of people believed he had WMD (and that INCLUDES dem politicians) because that is what he led everyone to believe. It was SADDAM'S own lies. The CIA was led to believe this information.

    The CIA's Mea Culpa on Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction | TIME.com

    Snip: Bottom line, from the CIA’s point of view: Saddam used to lie about possessing WMD, so we believed he still was.

    — When the [U.N. and International Atomic Energy Agency] inspections proved more intrusive than expected, the Iraqi leadership appears to have panicked and made a fateful decision to secretly destroy much of the remaining nondeclared items and eliminate the evidence.

    — Clumsy but genuine Iraqi moves toward transparency — significant alterations in their “cheat and retreat” pattern — not only went undetected but instead seemed to confirm that Iraq could and would conceal evidence of proscribed programs.

    — We now judge that the Iraqis feared that [Saddam’s son-in-law and Iraqi weapons expert Hussein Kamel Hassan al-Majid] — a critical figure in Iraq’s WMD and [denial and deception] activities — would reveal additional undisclosed information. Iraq decided that further widespread deception and attempts to hold onto extensive WMD programs while under U.N. sanctions was untenable and changed strategic direction by adopting a policy of disclosure and improved cooperation.

    — Iraq’s firmly established “cheat and retreat” pattern made it difficult for U.N. inspectors and Western analysts to accept new Iraqi assertions at face value.

    — A liability of intelligence analysis is that once a party has been proven to be an effective deceiver, that knowledge becomes a heavy factor in the calculation of the analytical observer.
    Seriously, Chris, can you focus? We're talking about a specific lie that Bush told.

    Here it is again ...


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post

    Saddam wasn't letting UN inspectors in. He acted like a man with something to hide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post

    Say what?? That's a lie that George Bush told -- that doesn't make it true ...

    Since we arrived in Iraq, we have conducted more than 400 inspections covering more than 300 sites. All inspections were performed without notice, and access was almost always provided promptly. In no case have we seen convincing evidence that the Iraqi side knew in advance that the inspectors were coming.

    (washingtonpost.com)

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Nothing in my post was opinion.

    I had no idea Wilson was so popular on the left because he supported GWB.
    Wilson didn't refute what Bush said about what British government said, he quite clearly said that in his opinion Bush was exaggerating the threat posed by Iraq. Here are the first two sentences from his NYT op-ed.

    Did the Bush administration manipulate intelligence about Saddam Hussein's weapons programs to justify an invasion of Iraq?

    Based on my experience with the administration in the months leading up to the war, I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

    What I Didn't Find in Africa - New York Times


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